Sergey Lavrov Interview on Bolshaya Igra, Moscow, 28 June 2023

В начале интервью «Большой игры» Лавров противопоставляет навязчивые заявления Вашингтона о невмешательстве логике «Россия — агрессор» по Украине и спрашивает, не создали ли расширение НАТО и роль США на украинской земле условия для роли Вагнера.

Opening the Bolshaya Igra interview days after the Wagner mutiny, Lavrov confronts Washington's repeated insistence that the United States bore no responsibility and does not interfere in Russia's internal affairs. He contrasts this with the White House's standing logic on Ukraine — whatever occurs, Russia is the aggressor and everything is Russia's fault — and asks whether, by that same causal logic, NATO's advance and America's role on Ukrainian soil did not help create the conditions that gave Wagner its special part in last week's events. The framing is not a courtroom proof but a demand for consistency: obsessive public denials sit alongside a bureaucratic reaction that, in Moscow's reading, looks like damage control.

Соединённые Штаты никак не были причастны к тому мятежу, который имел место в Москве на прошлой неделе.

The United States were in no way involved in the mutiny that took place in Moscow last week.

Если бы НАТО постоянно не продвигалась к границам России, наверное не возникло бы та обстановка, которая привела к этому мятежу.

If NATO had not constantly advanced toward Russia's borders, the situation that led to this mutiny would probably not have arisen.

Помимо публичных заявлений, Лавров ссылается на срочные указания Госдепа не привязывать мятеж к США и параллельные инструкции Киеву не устраивать диверсии на российской территории.

Beyond microphone statements, Lavrov says Moscow has information on how the United States coordinated its bureaucracy's reaction. The State Department urgently instructed all overseas missions not to comment on the mutiny in any way that could link events to US actions — possibly even on the eve of the crisis. Parallel instructions, he believes on reliable grounds, went to Kyiv: Ukrainians were told not to use the situation to organise diversions and provocations on Russian territory in the near term. Lavrov cannot guarantee this at one hundred per cent, but calls the reports highly credible and truth-like — part of a pattern where public innocence is paired with operational caution.

Госдепартамент в срочном порядке дал указание всем загранпредставительствам никоим образом не комментировать эту ситуацию так, чтобы кто-то мог привязать её к действиям Соединённых Штатов.

The State Department urgently instructed all overseas missions in no way to comment on this situation so that anyone could link it to US actions.

Пошли указания в Киев, чтобы украинцы не использовали эту ситуацию для организации диверсий на российской территории.

Instructions went to Kyiv for Ukrainians not to use this situation to organise diversions on Russian territory.

Заявление Кирби о несмене режима звучит искусственно на фоне послужного списка США и работы американских фондов с оппозицией в России — «явное лукавство».

Lavrov addresses coordinator for strategic communications Kirby's claim that America does not seek regime change in Russia. Against the United States' regime-change record everywhere else — where Washington never makes such disclaimers — the statement sounds artificial. He adds that until recently American foundations worked openly in Russia, cultivating and training opposition forces; details need not be rehearsed. The conclusion is blunt: obvious disingenuousness. The point serves the wider argument that US professions of non-interference during the mutiny cannot be taken at face value.

Соединённые Штаты не вмешивались во внутренние дела России, не планируют смену режима в России.

The United States did not interfere in Russia's internal affairs and do not plan regime change in Russia.

До недавнего времени американские фонды всячески обхаживали и тренировали оппозицию — это явное лукавство.

Until recently American foundations cultivated and trained the opposition — this is obvious disingenuousness.

Позиция Белого дома: без России не было бы войны, значит всё — вина России. Лавров переворачивает вопрос: не создали ли НАТО и роль США на Украине условия кризиса.

The interviewer notes a simple White House logic: Russia is the aggressor state; without Russia there would be no war in Ukraine; therefore whatever happens is Russia's fault. Lavrov accepts the premise as the operating American frame and turns it back: if NATO had not constantly advanced toward Russia's borders and if the United States had not played on Ukraine the role it plays now, the situation that produced the Wagner episode might never have arisen. The exchange establishes the interview's method — test Western slogans against the chain of events Moscow says the West prefers to cancel.

Россия — государство-агрессор; без России не было бы этой войны на территории Украины.

Russia is an aggressor state; without Russia there would be no war on Ukrainian territory.

Чтобы ни происходило — это вина России.

Whatever happens — it is Russia's fault.

Запад «отменяет» новейшую историю: расширение НАТО сеяло зёрна кризиса; без переворота 2014 года многое не произошло бы; оппозиция нарушила подписанные с Януковичем обязательства.

Lavrov classifies the main historical question as another instance of the West's culture of cancellation — erasing recent history that does not serve its interests. NATO expansion unquestionably sowed seeds that produced today's crisis. Closer to hand: without the 2014 coup much would not have happened. Putin has repeatedly said Russia had no designs on supporting Crimean reunification movements under legitimately elected presidents; the coup changed everything. US-backed opposition leaders violated signed obligations to Yanukovich to settle the crisis peacefully and hold early elections. The thread links alliance enlargement, the Maidan seizure of power and the broken guarantees that followed.

Американцы любят отменять всё то, что не отвечает их интересам — ещё один пример отмены новейшей истории.

Americans love to cancel everything that does not serve their interests — another example of cancelling recent history.

Расширение НАТО уже начало сеять зерна, которые дали такие безобразные всходы.

NATO expansion had already begun sowing seeds that produced such ugly shoots.

В день переворота объявили отмену статуса русского языка; Ярош требовал изгнать русских из Крыма; боевики штурмовали Верховный Совет Крыма — мощный сигнал русскому обществу.

On the day of the coup, Lavrov recalls, opposition leaders' first act was to announce plans to cancel Russian language status. Dmitry Yarosh demanded Russians be driven from Crimea; so-called Friendship Train militants were sent to storm the Crimean Supreme Soviet. The signal was powerful — including to Russian society, which has always felt a special bond with fellow Slavic peoples, above all Ukrainians and Belarusians. Russia had not sought to promote Crimean reunification under lawful presidents; the coup's violence and anti-Russian programme made continuation of the old status quo impossible in Moscow's telling.

В день переворота первое, что сделали — заявили о планах отменить статус русского языка.

On the day of the coup the first thing they did was announce plans to cancel Russian language status.

Дмитрий Ярош требовал изгнать русских из Крыма.

Dmitry Yarosh demanded that Russians be driven from Crimea.

Гарантии Франции, ФРГ и Польши не заставили оппозицию выполнить обязательства; подписанты Минска, кроме Путина, признали, что никогда не собирались его выполнять — нужно было накачать Украину оружием.

Despite guarantees from France, Germany and Poland in February 2014, no one lifted a finger to make the opposition honour obligations signed the evening before. The well-known Minsk agreements were then simply torn up — more dramatically because signatories other than Putin later admitted they never intended to implement them; time was needed to arm Ukraine against Russia. Lavrov calls this an open public confession. If Minsk had been honoured, there would have been no need for the special military operation — a fact he says is very well known.

Подписанты минских договорённостей, кроме Путина, признали, что никогда не собирались их выполнять.

Signatories of the Minsk agreements, except Putin, admitted they never intended to implement them.

Нужно было время, чтобы накачать Украину оружием против России.

Time was needed to pump Ukraine with weapons against Russia.

Если бы минские договорённости выполнялись, не было бы нужды в специальной военной операции.

If the Minsk agreements had been implemented, there would have been no need for the special military operation.

Формула Байдена о «неспровоцированной агрессии» — попытка снять с себя ответственность, переложить «с больной головы на здоровую»; всем понятны нечистоплотные приёмы западной пропаганды.

The Biden administration's formula that Russia began 'unprovoked aggression' is, in Lavrov's view, an attempt to shrug off responsibility — to shift it, as Russians say, from the sick head to the healthy one. Everyone understands what is meant and what unclean propaganda methods the West employs. The phrase is central to the version of events the Biden administration promotes; holding it up against the cancelled history of NATO enlargement, the coup and Minsk exposes, from Moscow's standpoint, the narrative's function rather than its descriptive accuracy.

Всё происходящее — вина России, поскольку она начала «неспровоцированную агрессию» — попытка снять с себя ответственность.

That everything happening is Russia's fault because it began 'unprovoked aggression' is an attempt to shrug off responsibility.

Переложить, как у нас говорят, с больной головы на здоровую.

To shift it, as we say, from the sick head to the healthy one.

Телеграммы посла Бёрнса из мемуаров драматично предсказывали последствия расширения НАТО; после Москвы он стал замгоссекретаря, затем директором ЦРУ — предостережения проигнорированы, ныне действует вопреки собственным оценкам.

Lavrov has studied the telegrams Ambassador William Burns sent to the State Department — not from secret sources but quoted in Burns's memoirs. They are concrete and dramatic in predicting the gravest consequences of NATO enlargement. Burns was no marginal figure: after Moscow he became deputy secretary for political affairs, then first deputy secretary, and now leads the CIA. All these warnings were ignored. Why does the Biden administration — and much of Congress, with Burns now acting opposite to his earlier assessments — behave as it does? The question hangs over the entire interview's historical reconstruction.

Телеграммы настолько конкретные и драматичные в предсказании серьёзнейших последствий расширения НАТО, что невольно возникает вопрос: почему их проигнорировали?

The telegrams are so concrete and dramatic in predicting the gravest consequences of NATO enlargement that one involuntarily asks: why were they ignored?

Сейчас он директор ЦРУ — действует ровно в противоположном направлении по сравнению со своими оценками того периода.

Now he is CIA director — acting in exactly the opposite direction compared with his assessments of that period.

В Мадриде Китай — стратегический вызов, Россия — немедленная угроза; «бунтаря» надо устранить; стратегическое поражение на поле боя — в том числе урок для КНР.

Citing close observers of US policy, Lavrov outlines the logic approved at NATO's Madrid summit a year earlier: China is proclaimed a strategic challenge, Russia an immediate threat of today. The immediate rebel — Russia, which dared to go against the grain — must be eliminated; this is above all about the world order. Any country that defended national interests this firmly would face the same. Hence incantations about inflicting strategic defeat on Russia on the battlefield — including as a lesson for the People's Republic of China. The West openly seeks to preserve its order; Lavrov says it does not especially hide the logic.

Надо устранить немедленного бунтаря — Россию, которая посмела пойти поперёк; это прежде всего миропорядок.

They must eliminate the immediate rebel — Russia, which dared to go against the grain; this is above all about the world order.

Заклинания о необходимости нанести России стратегическое поражение на поле боя — в том числе в качестве урока для Китайской Народной Республики.

Incantations about the need to inflict strategic defeat on Russia on the battlefield — including as a lesson for the People's Republic of China.

Правила меняются: Косово без референдума, Крым «не считается»; в ООН — целостность государств, чьи правительства представляют весь народ — а киевская власть представляла Крым и Донбасс?

The West's task is to preserve a rules-based order — but the rules shift case by case. In Kosovo no referendum was needed: independence was simply proclaimed. In Crimea there was a referendum — that means nothing. In Kosovo the principle of self-determination prevails; in Crimea territorial integrity is invoked. Yet the UN enshrines respect for the territorial integrity of all states whose governments represent the entire people living on that territory. Which Kyiv government in the last eight years represented Crimea, Donbass and Ukraine's south-east? Lavrov sees hegemon logic deeply embedded, periodically breaking through in Freudian slips.

В Косово никакого референдума не надо — просто провозгласили независимость; в Крыму был референдум — это ничего не значит.

In Kosovo no referendum was needed — independence was simply proclaimed; in Crimea there was a referendum — that means nothing.

Уважать надо территориальную целостность всех государств, чьи правительства представляют весь народ, проживающий на данной территории.

One must respect the territorial integrity of all states whose governments represent the entire people living on that territory.

Боррель: Европа — «дивный сад», вокруг — «джунгли»; никто, кроме Запада, не бережёт миропорядок по правилам; ЕС при нём полностью послушен Вашингтону.

Lavrov recalls EU foreign-policy chief Borrell's metaphor: Europe is a flourishing garden, the world around is jungle. He hopes Borrell did not mean the United States, since America is not Europe — but the sense is clear. No one but the West may guard the rules-based order; the West decides what globalisation looks like and which mechanisms service it, including trade disputes. Borrell, though titular head of European diplomacy, in Lavrov's characterisation serves American interests in Europe; the EU under him has become fully obedient to Washington. The image captures the hegemon mindset the interview keeps dissecting.

Европа — это дивный сад, цветущий, а вокруг нас джунгли.

Europe is a flourishing garden, and around us is jungle.

★ Rules-based order Никто не смеет нам беречь миропорядок, основанный на правилах.

No one but us may guard the world order based on rules.

Запад в одночасье растоптал свободу рынка и конкуренции, превратив принципы в оружие; выступление Алексея Можина в МВФ спровоцировало глубокие размышления стран Глобального Юга.

For decades the West preached free markets, fair competition, presumption of innocence and property rights to the rest of the world. Overnight, when it became necessary to punish Russia, every principle was trampled and turned into a weapon. Russia's IMF representative Alexey Mozhin spoke on this publicly in Washington at recent Fund meetings, provoking deep reflection among many states: what if tomorrow our behaviour displeases America? There is no doubt the response would be no less brutal. Lavrov calls this a healthy process — it strips illusions and pushes every self-respecting state toward sovereignty in key spheres of national life.

После того как Запад в одночасье растоптал все свои принципы, всё это было превращено в оружие.

After the West overnight trampled all its principles, everything was turned into a weapon.

Это здоровый процесс — лишает иллюзий и заставляет каждое уважающее себя государство следовать нашему примеру, добиваясь суверенитета в ключевых сферах.

It is a healthy process — it strips away illusions and makes every self-respecting state follow our example of achieving sovereignty in key spheres.

Россия открыта к сотрудничеству, но на бывших западных партнёров нельзя полагаться даже в юридически обязывающих договорённостях; заявления о невмешательстве при мятеже — тактика или обнадёживание?

Putin has said repeatedly that Russia remains open to cooperation, but regarding Western former partners Moscow cannot rely on agreements — including legally binding ones. The struggle of civilisations frames the mutiny week: if White House and State Department claims of non-interference were truly communicated at many levels to Russian leadership and the Foreign Ministry, why did they behave that way — reassuring or tactical manoeuvre? Lavrov leaves room for expert debate, especially on nuclear-weapon concerns when something alarming occurs inside a nuclear power, but treats obsessive US innocence messaging as itself suspicious.

Мы открыты к сотрудничеству, но в том, что касается наших западных бывших партнёров, мы не можем полагаться на договорённости с ними, включая юридически обязывающие.

We are open to cooperation, but regarding our Western former partners we cannot rely on agreements with them, including legally binding ones.

Слишком активно американцы продвигают тезис, что они здесь ни при чём.

The Americans are promoting far too actively the thesis that they have nothing to do with this.

За акцентированным невмешательством — озабоченность ядерным оружием; Боррель и Макрон в первые минуты призвали усилить вооружение Украины; ЕС одержим недопущением многополярности.

On why Washington accented non-interference worldwide during the mutiny, Lavrov agrees with experts who see concern over nuclear weapons as one factor — crises inside nuclear powers always cause anxiety. Europeans, unlike Americans, spoke more concretely about their interests: Borrell's immediate conclusion was to keep arming Ukraine because a crack had appeared; Macron said events underscored Russia's and its army's fragility and weakness, justifying continued support for Kyiv. Such statements appeared in the first minutes, then fell away — but an EU special session reportedly reviewed the situation. The impression matches the wider obsession with blocking a democratic multipolar order.

Боррель сказал, что главный вывод — подтверждение необходимости продолжать вооружать Украину.

Borrell said the main conclusion was confirmation of the need to keep arming Ukraine.

Макрон сказал, что произошедшее подчеркнуло хрупкость и слабость России и российской армии.

Macron said what happened underscored the fragility and weakness of Russia and the Russian army.

Запад одержим недопущением демократичного многополярного миропорядка; Украина — инструмент против укрепления России; расчёты обречены на провал.

Serious politicians, Lavrov says with alarm, remain possessed by the idea of preventing a democratic multipolar world order and seize any chance to defend hegemony. Ukraine is above all an instrument for blocking multipolarity and preventing Russia's strengthening — calculations doomed to fail, he insists without doubt. Adults clinging to such ideas worry him for the fate of European and Western civilisation as a whole. The mutiny episode is read not as Russian weakness but as another Western attempt to read strategic opportunity into internal turbulence.

★ Multipolarity Они одержимы стремлением не допустить формирования демократичного многополярного мироустройства.

They are possessed by the desire to prevent the formation of a democratic multipolar world order.

В Украине видят прежде всего инструмент недопущения появления многополярного мира и недопущения укрепления Российской Федерации.

In Ukraine they see above all an instrument for preventing multipolarity and preventing Russia's strengthening.

США обвиняют Россию в подрыве стратегической стабильности; Лавров перечисляет: ПРО, ДРСМД, Договор об открытом небе, ДСНВ — каждый раз Россия предлагала альтернативы.

Washington increasingly charges that Russia undermines strategic stability. Lavrov answers by listing facts: who began dismantling the international treaty architecture that ensured strategic stability — the ABM Treaty, INF Treaty, Open Skies, and finally New START, whose basic conditions in the preamble (equality, indivisible security, linkage of offensive and defensive arms) were crossed out overnight. Each time Moscow did not merely note American withdrawal but proposed alternatives. The accusation is reversed: look at the record before blaming Russia for instability around Ukraine and the wider world order contest.

Кто когда начал разрушать всю систему международных договоров, которые обеспечивали стратегическую стабильность?

Who began dismantling the entire system of international treaties that ensured strategic stability?

Всё это было перечёркнуто в одночасье.

All of this was crossed out overnight.

Путин предупредил Буша: ПРО вынудит меры по её преодолению; Райс и Гейтс договорились о технических шагах на базах в Польше и Румынии — американцы не стали их выполнять.

On the ABM Treaty, Lavrov recalls Putin's frank conversation with President George W. Bush: if you deploy missile defence, we will be forced to take measures so your shield is penetrable — otherwise I will be guilty before history and my country and all humanity. Bush replied they were not enemies and promised the system was not against Russia but against North Korea and Iran; what Russia would do, he would not treat as directed against US interests. It ended in 2018 when Putin, in his address to the Federal Assembly, explained the outcome of measures taken after America's ABM withdrawal. Condoleezza Rice and Bill Gates later came to the Kremlin; Putin, with Lavrov present, returned repeatedly to technical steps Americans could take on planned bases in Poland and Romania.

Если вы это сделаете, мы вынуждены будем предпринимать меры, чтобы ваша ПРО была преодолимой.

If you do this, we will be forced to take measures so that your missile defence is penetrable.

Они не стали этим заниматься, сославшись на то, что поляки против.

They did not proceed, citing Polish opposition.

После выхода США из ДРСМД Путин объявил односторонний мораторий и предложил встречный мораторий НАТО и взаимные инспекции Калининграда и позиционных районов — НАТО отказалась.

When America left the INF Treaty, Putin declared Russia would observe a unilateral moratorium on deploying ground-launched missiles banned by that treaty until such systems appeared in the West — primarily with the Americans and on allies' territory. Moscow also proposed NATO declare a parallel moratorium — two unilateral legal acts running in parallel — and offered reciprocal visits: Russians would show Kaliningrad Iskanders the West suspected of carrying prohibited-range missiles if NATO would open Polish and Romanian positional areas. NATO categorically refused. Lavrov dismisses talk that Russia never offered transparency: Putin's special message to NATO and above all the United States said come and see.

Мы будем соблюдать односторонний мораторий до тех пор, пока этот класс ракет не появится на западе.

We will observe a unilateral moratorium until this class of missiles appears in the West.

Предложили договориться о взаимных визитах — они категорически отказались.

We proposed reciprocal visits — they categorically refused.

По «Открытому небу» Россия действовала зеркально — территории были закрыты для инспекторов; условия преамбулы ДСНВ перечёркнуты.

On Open Skies, Russia is accused of blocking access; Lavrov says Moscow acted strictly mirror-image because huge territories in Europe and North America were closed to Russian inspectors through logistical and technical tricks Americans employed. He cannot accept blame for destroying strategic stability while surveying the war in and around Ukraine. The START preamble's equality, indivisible security and offensive-defensive linkage — conditions that made the treaty possible — were discarded. The legal architecture of arms control, in Russia's account, was systematically dismantled by Washington long before the special military operation.

Мы делали всё исключительно зеркально.

We did everything strictly mirror-image.

Я не могу принять обвинения в том, что мы разрушили систему стратегической стабильности.

I cannot accept accusations that we destroyed the system of strategic stability.

На Украине — украинские войска, но оружие, разведка и планирование — от Запада; Украина — инструмент войны против России; без Запада СВО давно достигла бы целей.

Surveying Ukraine, Lavrov asks whom Russia is fighting. Ground forces are Ukrainian, but weapons, intelligence — including real-time data — and much operational planning come from the West, including NATO generals and the Joint Chiefs in Washington. Strategic materials and dual-use goods are channelled through the West. One may call the West Ukraine's patron, but more accurately Ukraine is the West's instrument for waging war against Russia. Putin assessed on 24 June that Russia faces the economic, military and information machine of the entire West. Without the West, Lavrov argues, the war would long ago have ended and special military operation goals would have been achieved.

★ Collective West Фактически Россия воюет с НАТО, с коллективным Западом.

In fact Russia is at war with NATO, with the collective West.

Нам противостоит экономическая, военная и информационная машина всего Запада.

We face the economic, military and information machine of the entire West.

Без Запада этой войны давно бы уже не было.

Without the West this war would long ago have ceased.

С Майдана этаж СБУ занимали ЦРУ и спецслужбы США; инструкторы и под видом наёмников — кадровые военные; заклинания Столтенберга о том, что НАТО не воюет, звучат жалко.

Lavrov extends the proxy-war picture: foreigners on Ukrainian soil called mercenaries may include cadre servicemen sent under that cover; instructors are certainly career military, working in large numbers though apparently not on the line of contact. He recalls that already during the 2013–14 Maidan, which ended in coup, an entire floor in Ukraine's security service was occupied by CIA and other US special-service representatives. Incantations that NATO is not fighting Russia — as Stoltenberg likes to repeat — sound pitiful and dishonest to adults, Lavrov says; all the more important to uphold justice and the special military operation's stated goals.

В службе безопасности Украины этаж занимали представители ЦРУ и прочих специальных служб Соединённых Штатов.

An entire floor in Ukraine's security service was occupied by representatives of the CIA and other US special services.

Заклинания, что НАТО не воюет против Российской Федерации, — смешно и звучит жалко.

Incantations that NATO is not fighting the Russian Federation sound ridiculous and pitiful.

Помимо демилитаризации — денацификация; Россия воюет с возрождённым нацизмом, культивируемым Западом; единственная «основа» переговоров — формула Зеленского.

Among President Putin's special military operation goals, besides demilitarisation, Lavrov stresses denazification. Russia is fighting on Ukrainian soil against the West and against Nazism actively revived and cultivated by Western colleagues. Their approach to talks repeats endlessly that the sole basis is Zelensky's ten-point formula. The West tries to draw leading Global South countries toward that formula. Copenhagen and related efforts are part of the same campaign to legitimise terms Moscow treats as capitulation dressed in peace rhetoric.

★ Denazification Одна из целей специальной военной операции, помимо демилитаризации, заключается в денацификации Украины.

One of the special military operation's goals, besides demilitarisation, is denazification of Ukraine.

Мы воюем на Украине с западом и с нацизмом, который возродился и активно культивируется нашими западными коллегами.

We are fighting on Ukrainian soil against the West and against Nazism revived and actively cultivated by our Western colleagues.

В Копенгагене Запад с Украиной зазывал страны мирового большинства под формулу Зеленского как единственную основу; декоративные пункты о продовольствии и энергии прикрывают капитуляцию.

A secretive Copenhagen meeting with Global South leaders sought support for Zelensky's formula as the only basis — the West's position, which Zelensky and his entire administration say cannot be replaced. Lavrov asked colleagues who attended what the West wanted to do with Ukraine, inviting leading countries of the world majority. Information that leaked confirms manipulation: decorative points on food, energy and nuclear safety veil the core — Russia withdraws to 1991 borders, leadership faces a tribunal, reparations on a Western-drawn bill, then perhaps a peace treaty. The West presents this as the only way out while insisting Ukraine defends European civilisational values.

Формула Зеленского — единственной основы — это позиция Запада.

Zelensky's formula as the sole basis is the West's position.

Состоялась встреча в Копенгагене, куда зазвали ведущие страны мирового большинства, куда нас не пригласили.

A meeting took place in Copenhagen, leading countries of the world majority were invited, we were not.

Формула: отход к границам 1991 г., трибунал, репарации — предварительные условия, а не основа; серьёзная держава не примет это без полного разгрома; Запад в тупике репутации.

Stripped of environmental, food and nuclear-safety trimmings, Zelensky's formula means Russia leaves all territories as of 1991, Russian leadership is handed to a tribunal, Russia pays reparations on a presented bill — and only then a peace treaty. Lavrov confirms these are not even a basis for negotiations but preconditions: withdrawal to 1991 borders, criminal prosecution, reparations, then sit down. No serious power accepts such terms without total battlefield defeat. The West has staked reputation and political future on Zelensky; retreating from an absolutely dead-end position without losing face is impossible — though they often lose face while pretending otherwise.

Формула предполагает, что Россия уходит со всех территорий по состоянию на 1991 год, руководство отдают под трибунал, Россия выплачивает репарации — и после этого заключается мирный договор.

The formula presumes Russia leaves all territories as of 1991, leadership is handed to a tribunal, Russia pays reparations — and only then a peace treaty is concluded.

В список предварительных условий входит уход на границы 1991 года, уголовные преследования, репарации — и потом садимся за стол.

The list of preconditions includes withdrawal to 1991 borders, criminal prosecution, reparations — and then we sit down at the table.

Запад утверждает, что Украина защищает европейские ценности; киевский режим нацистский; запрет русского языка — Европа ассоциирует себя с русофобией и нацизмом.

Western leaders insist Ukraine defends European civilisational values while, Lavrov states without dispute, the Ukrainian regime is Nazi in character. Banning Russian language everywhere with physical violence against violators means Europe associates itself with racism, Russophobia and Nazism by declaring that the Kyiv regime embodies European values. Hence Russia has no choice but to prevent Nazism's revival on its borders. Examples are too well known to burden the audience — the regime is Russophobic by law and practice. Zelensky's conditions are capitulation before talks begin, not a peace programme.

Украинский режим — нацистский режим — ни у кого сомнения не вызывает.

The Ukrainian regime is a Nazi regime — no one has any doubt about that.

Европа ассоциирует себя с расизмом, с русофобией, с нацизмом, поскольку заявляет, что именно киевский режим исповедует европейские ценности.

Europe associates itself with racism, Russophobia and Nazism since it declares that the Kyiv regime embodies European values.

Посольство спрашивало о гибкости после мятежа; Путин: цели СВО и позиции на поле боя сохранены; при «гибкости» в смысле капитуляции по формуле Зеленского — говорить не о чем.

An unnamed embassy called asking how events might affect Russian diplomacy and whether, after the mutiny's failure, Russia might adopt a more flexible approach to the Ukraine crisis. Lavrov has already answered through Putin's repeated assessments: having overcome the mutiny attempt, Russia did not compromise special military operation goals or lose battlefield positions. With Western-created direct security threats, ever longer-range lethal aid, and the declared aim to destroy everything Russian on Ukrainian soil — language, culture, monuments replaced by Bandera and Shukhevych statues — abandoning set tasks is impossible. If embassies meant flexibility on capitulation, no flexibility is conceivable.

Преодолев попытку мятежа, мы нисколько не поступились целями специальной военной операции и не потеряли позиции на поле боя.

Having overcome the mutiny attempt, we in no way compromised the goals of the special military operation and did not lose positions on the battlefield.

Если относительно темы капитуляции как условия заключения мира по Зеленскому — о какой-то гибкости говорить не приходится.

If they mean flexibility on capitulation as the condition for peace under Zelensky — no flexibility is conceivable.

Позиции на поле боя не потеряны; уничтожение всего русского на Украине объявлено целью — памятники сносят, ставят Бандеру и Шухевича; от поставленных задач отказаться невозможно.

Putin stressed that positions on the battlefield were not lost. Lavrov lists what makes retreat impossible: deliberate Western security threats, pumping Ukraine with ever more long-range lethal weapons, persecution and discrimination — even the announced goal of destroying everything Russian in Ukraine, regarding people whose ancestors lived there for centuries, their language and culture. Monuments are demolished and replaced with statues to Bandera, Shukhevych and other Nazi collaborators. The embassy's hope for diplomatic flexibility misunderstands that the special military operation addresses existential cultural and security threats, not a bargaining mood after internal turbulence.

Уничтожение всего русского на Украине объявлено целью.

The destruction of everything Russian in Ukraine has been declared a goal.

Невозможно от задач, которые были поставлены, отказаться.

It is impossible to abandon the tasks that were set.

Переговоры не отвергались; серьёзных западных предложений нет — болтовня; отклик на Африку, Бразилию, посланника Папы; отличие от форумов Зеленского без России.

Russia never refused negotiations, Putin said a year earlier; those who refuse — the West and Kyiv — should understand delay makes agreement harder. Moscow was ready to consider any serious proposal; none have appeared from the West — only talk. African leaders asked to be received and Russia agreed promptly; Brazil sent President Lula's representative and talks were held; the Pope's envoy is expected. Hopes in Germany and France attach to various peacekeeping missions. Lavrov distinguishes serious initiatives from Zelensky forums without Russia and from Western phone theatre.

★ Ready for talks Мы никогда не отказывались от переговоров — те, кто отказывается, должны понимать: чем дольше тянут, тем тяжелее договариваться.

We have never refused negotiations — those who refuse should understand: the longer they drag it out, the harder it will be to reach agreement.

Серьёзных предложений мы не видели — идёт только болтовня.

We have seen no serious proposals — only talk.

В Копенгагене странам Глобального Юга предлагали подписаться по пунктам продовольственной и энергетической безопасности, втянув в поддержку капитуляционного ядра; форум мира без России — та же логика.

At Copenhagen, Global South states were pressed to back Zelensky's plan. When they objected that the plan meant capitulation, they were told: do you not support the whole plan? It also has non-war points on food, energy and nuclear safety — let African, Asian and Latin American states each take one benign paragraph and sign, while the West smuggles in support for the odious core. Russia's partners reported this Jesuitical approach. The West now wants a peace forum without Russia, as in Copenhagen where several Third World countries were summoned without Moscow. Lavrov treats these as manipulations, not diplomacy.

Вычленить то, что не является одиозным, — подпишитесь, а дальше мы сами.

Extract what is not odious — sign, and we will handle the rest ourselves.

Сейчас хотят созвать форум мира без участия России.

They now want to convene a peace forum without Russia's participation.

Макрон объявляет звонки Путину для показухи; Блинкен звонил дважды за полтора года; линия Салливана и контакты по посольствам есть, но «завалы» с обамовских высылок не разгребены.

Macron repeatedly announced he would call Putin — then admitted he need not call; if he wants to, Putin will answer, but announcing it to the microphone is showing off before voters, undignified for someone who truly wants dialogue. Putin never refuses serious contact. Blinken called twice in eighteen months, including ten minutes on foot at G20 Bali; no further approaches. Jake Sullivan's line exists; embassy functioning contacts continue, though clearing the mess Obama started three weeks before Trump's inauguration — expelling dozens of diplomats, seizing five properties — remains difficult. Russia is ready for contacts; the deficit is on the Western side.

Если хочешь позвонить — просто позвони; зачем объявлять в микрофон?

If you want to call — just call; why announce it to the microphone?

За последние полтора года Блинкен просил контакт два раза — больше обращений не было.

In the last year and a half Blinken requested contact twice — there were no further approaches.

За три недели до инаугурации Трампа Обама выгнал десятки дипломатов и отобрал пять объектов — с тех пор завалы не разгребены; контакты есть, но базовый ущерб сохраняется.

Lavrov dates the current diplomatic debris to Obama's actions three weeks before Trump's inauguration: slamming the door, expelling dozens of Russian diplomats, seizing five property objects. Since then clearing those backlogs has been unsuccessful. Functional embassy contacts exist on both sides, but the baseline damage shapes how Russia reads Western sincerity. The point supports the wider theme that legally binding and even operational arrangements with former Western partners cannot be assumed durable.

Завалы, которые начал создавать Обама за три недели до инаугурации Трампа, хлопнув дверью, выгнав десятки наших дипломатов, отобрав пять объектов собственности.

The backlogs Obama began creating three weeks before Trump's inauguration — slamming the door, expelling dozens of our diplomats, seizing five property objects.

Разгребаем не очень пока успешно.

We are not clearing them very successfully so far.

На ГА ООН подтвердили встречу с президентом Кипра — затем извинились: ЕС не советует встречаться; ещё два европейских министра «ушли со связи»; «шаг влево, шаг вправо».

No encouraging unpublicised Western contacts have occurred. At last September's UN General Assembly ministerial week, among many meeting requests Russia responded positively — including from Cyprus President Anastasiades, with whom Lavrov had long cooperated on Cyprus settlement within the five permanent members' format. The meeting was confirmed, then Cyprus apologised: the EU advised against meeting Lavrov. Two other European ministers' requests likewise vanished. Lavrov concludes there is some ban — step left, step right. The EU appears to forbid ministers from meeting Russia's foreign minister except where national interest overrides bloc discipline, as with Hungary.

Евросоюз ему не советует со мной встречаться — мне кажется, есть какой-то запрет: шаг влево, шаг вправо.

The European Union advised him not to meet me — there seems to be some ban: step left, step right.

Два ещё запроса европейских министров потом тоже куда-то ушли — ушли со связи.

Two other European ministers' requests likewise vanished — fell out of contact.

Исключение — министр иностранных дел Венгрии: встречи и звонки, ПМЭФ, визит, сопредседательство межправкомиссии; прагматичный диалог вопреки давлению Брюсселя.

The exception is Hungary's foreign minister: Lavrov has met and spoken by phone with him several times. He was recently in St Petersburg for the economic forum, had visited earlier, and co-chairs the intergovernmental economic commission with Lavrov. Hungary illustrates that EU-wide contact bans are political choices, not inevitabilities — and that one European state continues pragmatic dialogue while others self-cancel under Brussels pressure.

Я несколько раз встречался и говорил по телефону с министром иностранных дел Венгрии.

I have met and spoken by phone with Hungary's foreign minister several times.

Это исключение.

That is the exception.

Помимо формулы мира — давление на Индию, Бразилию, Китай, Турцию сотрудничать с односторонними санкциями США, блокируя поставки даже невоенного и «двойного назначения» по самодельным правилам.

Beyond peace-formula pressure on India, Brazil, China and Turkey, the West demands greater compliance with unilateral US sanctions — blocking supplies to Russia even of non-military equipment and anything deemed dual-use under self-invented, unexplained rules. In a world at war, Lavrov notes, it is hard to imagine what lacks dual use — people must be clothed, fed and given medical care. This is a second front of political struggle: compel independent states to treat America's unilateral sanctions as the global norm.

Давление на независимые государства — больше сотрудничать с американскими односторонними санкциями, блокируя поставки России даже не военного оборудования.

Pressure on independent states to cooperate more with US unilateral sanctions, blocking supplies to Russia even of non-military equipment.

Правила, которые Запад сам придумывает и которые он никому не объясняет.

Rules the West invents itself and explains to no one.

Размещение тактического ядерного оружия в Беларуси вызвало шум, хотя обязательств не нарушено; у США — ядерное оружие в пяти странах НАТО и «совместная ядерная миссия».

When Russia and Belarus agreed to station tactical nuclear weapons and deploy capable aircraft, an uproar followed — irresponsible, aggressive steps that do not promote normalisation. Yet Moscow violates no international obligations, including the NPT. Americans and NATO allies have kept tactical nuclear bombs in five non-nuclear NATO states for decades; the alliance's 'nuclear sharing' and joint nuclear mission even train non-nuclear states' pilots to deliver nuclear bombs — a strong NPT contradiction in Russia's view. Western rules: we may arm Ukraine to the teeth; others may not supply Russia even dual-use goods.

Какой шум поднялся — безответственные, агрессивные шаги!

What an uproar — irresponsible, aggressive steps!

Американцы вместе с партнёрами по НАТО уже долгие десятилетия держат тактическое ядерное вооружение в пяти странах — членах НАТО.

Americans together with NATO partners have for decades kept tactical nuclear weapons in five NATO member states.

Поставки танков, HIMARS, Storm Shadow, F-16, боеприпасы с обеднённым ураном; ЕС нарушает ДОВСЕ и документы ОБСЕ; «мы несём демократию, вы — издержки тоталитаризма».

Western supplies to Ukraine escalate continuously — tanks, HIMARS, Storm Shadow, discussion of F-16s that can carry nuclear weapons; Britain has already supplied depleted-uranium munitions. The EU violates the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe, small-arms agreements and OSCE documents urging no arms deliveries into conflict zones; internal EU legal papers likewise require restraint — all ignored. Lavrov contrasts the rule that the West must arm Ukraine with the rule that nobody may arm Russia. Patrushev once told his counterpart that Russia's Africa and Latin America ties are transparent and legal; Americans openly prepared coups — 'we bring democracy, you bring totalitarianism's costs.'

Эти правила нам на Западе не то что можно — мы обязаны вооружать Украину до зубов.

By these rules we in the West are not merely allowed — we are obliged to arm Ukraine to the teeth.

Мы это несём демократию, а вы это несёте издержки тоталитаризма.

We bring democracy, you bring the costs of totalitarianism.

Вашингтон жертвует принципами мировой экономики; Китай обыграл США по их правилам — отсюда сдерживание и санкции на чипы; с партнёрами мирового большинства — баланс национальных интересов.

Asked how sectional pressure succeeds outside America's bloc, Lavrov says Washington and subordinated EU and other collective-West allies have gone to previously unimaginable lengths sacrificing principles that organised the world economy for decades — and limits are not yet reached. They will undermine their reputation and prove untrustworthiness once and for all. China is deeply embedded in a US-shaped global economy, played by American rules, beat America on its own field and grew stronger — hence containment and fresh chip sanctions because China simply becomes more competitive. With Russia's partners in the world majority, Moscow proceeds from national interests and balances; when leadership is guided by balanced interests, mechanisms can always be found.

Китай принял американские правила игры, обыграл Америку на поле американском и стал экономически гораздо более сильной.

China accepted America's rules of the game, beat America on America's own field and became economically far stronger.

Санкции против поставки чипов введены исключительно потому, что Китай становится более конкурентоспособным.

Sanctions on chip supplies were introduced solely because China is becoming more competitive.

Боррель откровенно признал: прекратить поставки вооружений Украине — максимум через две недели всё закончится; но Запад не может допустить поражения Украины — должны проиграть русские; чистосердечное признание прокси-войны.

Lavrov cites EU foreign-policy chief Borrell's recent frank if naive admission: anyone who wants the war to stop need only stop supplying arms to Ukraine — within at most two weeks everything would end. But, Borrell continued, do we want such an ending? We cannot allow Ukraine to lose; Russians must lose. Lavrov treats this as a clean-hearted confession confirming that the West fights Russia through Ukraine and that without Western weapons the campaign would collapse quickly — whatever Stoltenberg and others claim about NATO not being at war with Moscow.

Если кто-то хочет прекращения войны — надо просто прекратить поставлять Украине вооружение, и максимум через две недели всё закончится.

If anyone wants the war to stop, they need only stop supplying arms to Ukraine — within at most two weeks everything will end.

Мы не имеем права позволить, чтобы Украина потерпела поражение — поражение должны потерпеть русские.

We cannot allow Ukraine to lose — Russians must be the ones to lose.

Байден избирателю: США не участник конфликта, не хотят ядерной войны — значит её не будет; история от Вьетнама до Ливии и Гаити — успехов нет; разрушенные договоры делают ставку на «авось» безответственной.

From conversations with former administration and congressional figures, Lavrov sketches the pre-election picture Americans hear: Biden says the US is not a party to the Ukraine conflict and does not want nuclear or World War Three; America is the mightiest power — if it does not want war, there will be no war. Voters are told not to worry about prosperity or security; Ukrainian coffins need not trouble Americans if Zelensky is untroubled. As propaganda for brainwashing voters it works, especially the coffin argument. But US intervention history from Vietnam through Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Haiti shows 'as we wish, so it shall be' often fails. Saying nuclear war will not happen because America does not want it earns credit — yet the treaty system built to make risks negligible was destroyed by the United States. Relying on chance in nuclear matters, Lavrov concludes, is what the Biden team offers the electorate while not telling the truth on what matters most.

Президент Байден говорит, что Соединённые Штаты не участник конфликта на Украине и не хотят ядерной войны — раз не хотят, войны не будет.

President Biden says the United States is not a party to the conflict in Ukraine and does not want nuclear war — if they do not want it, there will be no war.

Именно для того, чтобы снизить риски ядерной войны и сделать их ничтожными, существовала система договорённостей, которую разрушили Соединённые Штаты.

It was precisely to reduce the risks of nuclear war and make them negligible that a system of agreements existed — which the United States destroyed.

Нигде за последние десятилетия не достигнут результатов, которые декларировались.

Nowhere in recent decades have the declared results been achieved.