Transcript
Interview with Russia Today
English includes full house translations. Review is pending; untranslated passages and selected digest glosses remain labelled.
| Русский | English |
|---|---|
| Matching Russian passage has not been identified | OWEN: Do you think there should be more practical outcomes though? Is it too much of a talking show — events like APEC? |
| 1 APEC Summit and Economic Priorities | |
| В.Путин: Это правда. Но дело в том, что (Вы сами сейчас об этом сказали) АТЭС изначально задумывался как форум для обсуждения экономических проблем. И именно на этом мы как страна-хозяйка, принимающая сторона, намерены тоже сосредоточить своё внимание – именно на проблемах экономического, социально-экономического характера. Изначально, когда АТЭС создавался, во главу угла была поставлена цель либерализации мировой экономики. И мы намерены этот вопрос сделать ключевым в ходе обсуждения во Владивостоке. Когда я приглашал наших коллег собраться именно в России, в Российской Федерации (это было лет 5 тому назад), я как раз исходил из того, что для России это направление нашей деятельности является крайне важным, имея в виду, что две трети российской территории находится в Азии, а основные объёмы товарооборота, более 50 процентов, приходятся на Западную Европу, и только 24 процента нашего торгового оборота приходятся на Азию. А это, между тем, быстро, интенсивно развивающийся регион. Мы с вами это хорошо знаем, и для всех это хорошо известно. Поэтому мы намерены сосредоточиться прежде всего на проблемах экономики, как я сказал, либерализации мировой экономики, на транспорте, на продовольственной безопасности человечества. Хорошо известно, что за последний год количество голодающих людей в мире резко возросло – на 200 миллионов человек. Это уже миллиард человек в мире, которые испытывают проблемы с продовольствием, люди голодают. Я думаю, что эти, так же как и ряд других проблем, крайне важных, чувствительных для миллионов людей на планете, и будут в центре нашего внимания. Что касается Сирии, других «горячих» точек, вопросов, которые на слуху, разумеется, в ходе дискуссии, в ходе двусторонних встреч так или иначе мы будем эти проблемы обсуждать, без этого не обойдётся. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: That is true. But the point is that (you yourself just said this) APEC was conceived from the start as a forum for discussing economic problems. And it is precisely on this that we, as the host country, the receiving side, also intend to concentrate our attention — precisely on problems of an economic, a socio-economic character. From the start, when APEC was created, the aim of liberalizing the world economy was placed at the forefront. And we intend to make this question the key one in the course of the discussion in Vladivostok. When I invited our colleagues to gather precisely in Russia, in the Russian Federation (this was about 5 years ago), I proceeded precisely from the view that for Russia this direction of our activity is extremely important, having in mind that two thirds of Russian territory is in Asia, while the main volumes of trade turnover, more than 50 percent, fall on Western Europe, and only 24 percent of our trade turnover falls on Asia. And this, meanwhile, is a rapidly, intensively developing region. We know this well, and it is well known to everyone. So we intend to concentrate above all on the problems of the economy, as I said, on the liberalization of the world economy, on transport, on the food security of humanity. It is well known that over the past year the number of hungry people in the world has risen sharply — by 200 million people. This is already a billion people in the world who have problems with food; people are going hungry. I think that these, like a number of other problems that are extremely important and sensitive for millions of people on the planet, will be at the center of our attention. As for Syria and other "hot" spots, questions that are on everyone's lips, of course in the course of the discussion, in the course of bilateral meetings, we will one way or another discuss these problems; it will not do without that. |
| К.Оуэн: Может быть, всё‑таки нужен практический результат? Может быть, на саммитах вроде АТЭС много тратят времени на бесполезные разговоры? Мы намерены сосредоточиться на проблемах экономики, либерализации мировой экономики, на транспорте, на продовольственной безопасности человечества. За последний год количество голодающих в мире резко возросло. Эти, так же как и ряд других проблем, крайне важных, чувствительных для миллионов людей на планете, и будут в центре нашего внимания. |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: Perhaps a practical result is needed after all? Perhaps at summits of the APEC kind a great deal of time is spent on useless talk? We intend to concentrate on the problems of the economy, on the liberalization of the world economy, on transport, on the food security of humankind. Over the past year the number of hungry people in the world has risen sharply. These problems, like a number of others that are extremely important and sensitive for millions of people on the planet, will be at the center of our attention. |
| 2 The Value of Multilateral Summits | |
| В.Путин: Вы знаете, совсем недавно я принимал участие в Мексике в заседании «двадцатки». Как правило, такие мероприятия готовятся нашими помощниками, министрами, экспертами высокого уровня, но всё‑таки ряд проблем так или иначе оказывается в центре внимания руководителей делегаций, лидеров государств, которые принимают участие. Так было, кстати говоря, и в Мексике. Я с любопытством и интересом наблюдал за столкновением мнений, принимал участие в этих дискуссиях. Думаю, что и здесь [во Владивостоке] будет не меньше дискуссий. Но Вы понимаете, дело в том, что только в результате кропотливой, если не ежедневной, то ежегодной, ежеквартальной, если позволите сказать таким бюрократическим языком, работы можно в конце концов выйти на приемлемые решения в таких чувствительных сферах, как, скажем, та же самая либерализация торговли. Ведь она касается тоже миллионов и миллионов людей. Вы знаете дискуссии, которые идут на площадке Всемирной торговой организации. Для нас этот саммит АТЭС является крайне важным и в связи с тем, что Россия стала полноправным членом Всемирной торговой организации. Мы создали на постсоветском пространстве Таможенный союз вместе с Беларусью и Казахстаном и Единое экономическое пространство, и для нас очень важен диалог, чтобы наши партнёры поняли, мы могли бы им объяснить, могли бы показать преимущества такого объединения на постсоветском пространстве, которое бы помогало нам в сотрудничестве. Тем более что эти объединения, о которых я сказал, они созданы на принципах ВТО. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: You know, quite recently I took part in Mexico in a meeting of the Twenty. As a rule such events are prepared by our aides, ministers, and high-level experts, but all the same a number of problems one way or another end up at the center of attention of the heads of delegations, the leaders of the states taking part. So it was, by the way, in Mexico too. I watched with curiosity and interest the clash of opinions, and I took part in these discussions. I think that here [in Vladivostok] there will be no fewer discussions. But you understand, the point is that only as a result of painstaking work — if not daily, then yearly, quarterly, if you will allow me to put it in such bureaucratic language — can one in the end arrive at acceptable decisions in such sensitive spheres as, say, that same liberalization of trade. After all, it too concerns millions and millions of people. You know the discussions that go on at the venue of the World Trade Organization. For us this APEC summit is extremely important also in connection with the fact that Russia has become a full member of the World Trade Organization. On the post-Soviet space we have created a Customs Union together with Belarus and Kazakhstan, and a Single Economic Space, and for us dialogue is very important, so that our partners would understand, so that we could explain to them, could show the advantages of such a union on the post-Soviet space, which would help us in cooperation. All the more so since these unions I have spoken of were created on the principles of the WTO. |
| К.Оуэн: Спасибо за пояснения. Мы, если возможно, ещё вернёмся к АТЭС чуть позже. Вы затронули ещё один очень важный вопрос, который сейчас находится в центре внимания СМИ, – это ужасающие события, происходящие в Сирии в последние полтора года. За это время позиция России не изменилась. Вы высказывались против иностранного вмешательства, за то, чтобы своё будущее сирийский народ определял сам путём переговоров. Сама по себе идея прекрасна, но каждый день с обеих сторон гибнут люди. Не пора ли перейти от слов к делам? Возможно, России следует уже пересмотреть свою позицию? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: Thank you for the explanations. If possible, we will return to APEC a little later. You have touched on another very important question that is now at the center of the media's attention — the appalling events taking place in Syria over the last year and a half. In that time Russia's position has not changed. You have spoken against foreign interference, and for the Syrian people determining their own future themselves, through negotiations. The idea is splendid in itself, but every day people are dying on both sides. Is it not time to move from words to deeds? Perhaps Russia should already reconsider its position? |
| 3 Syria and Non-Intervention | |
| В.Путин: А почему только Россия должна переоценивать свою позицию? Может быть, и наши партнёры по переговорному процессу должны переоценить свою позицию? Ведь когда я вспоминаю то, что происходило в последние годы, и я хочу Вас вернуть к событиям последних лет, то далеко не все инициативы наших партнёров заканчивались так, как это им самим бы хотелось. Возьмите примеры многих стран, в которых развиваются конфликты. Соединённые Штаты (позднее с союзниками) зашли в Афганистан. Сейчас все думают о том, как унести оттуда ноги. Если мы и разговариваем о чём‑то, это о том, чтобы помочь в транзите выхода людей и техники из Афганистана. Вы уверены, что там стабилизируется ситуация на десятилетия вперёд? Пока такой уверенности нет ни у кого. А что происходит в арабских странах? Да, произошли известные события, скажем, в Египте, в Ливии, в Тунисе, в Йемене. Там что, наступил порядок и полное благополучие? А в Ираке что происходит? В Ливии вообще до сих пор практически идёт вооружённая борьба между различными племенами. Я сейчас не буду говорить о том, как происходила смена власти. Это отдельная страница. Но нас что беспокоит? Я хочу это ещё раз сказать. Нас беспокоит, конечно, то, что сейчас происходит насилие в Сирии, но и не меньше беспокоит, что может быть после принятия соответствующих решений. На наш взгляд, самым важным является сегодня прекратить насилие, заставить все стороны конфликта (и правительственную часть, и так называемых повстанцев, вооружённую оппозицию) сесть за стол переговоров, определить будущее, обеспечивающее безопасность всех участников внутриполитического процесса, и только после этого переходить к каким‑то практическим шагам по поводу внутреннего устройства самой страны. Мы прекрасно понимаем, что там нужны перемены, но это совсем не значит, что перемены должны быть кровавыми. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: And why should only Russia reassess its position? Perhaps our partners in the negotiating process should reassess their position too? After all, when I recall what has been happening in recent years, and I want to return you to the events of recent years, far from all the initiatives of our partners ended as they themselves would have wished. Take the examples of many countries in which conflicts are developing. The United States (later with allies) went into Afghanistan. Now everyone is thinking about how to get their feet out of there. If we talk about anything, it is about helping with the transit of the exit of people and equipment from Afghanistan. Are you sure that the situation there will stabilize for decades ahead? So far no one has such confidence. And what is happening in the Arab countries? Yes, the known events took place, say, in Egypt, in Libya, in Tunisia, in Yemen. Has order and complete well-being set in there? And what is happening in Iraq? In Libya armed struggle among various tribes is practically still going on at all. I will not speak now of how the change of power took place. That is a separate page. But what worries us? I want to say this once more. We are worried, of course, by the violence now taking place in Syria, but we are worried no less by what may come after the corresponding decisions are taken. In our view, the most important thing today is to stop the violence, to compel all sides of the conflict (both the government part and the so-called rebels, the armed opposition) to sit down at the negotiating table, to determine a future that ensures the security of all participants in the domestic political process, and only after that to move on to any practical steps concerning the internal arrangement of the country itself. We understand perfectly well that changes are needed there, but this does not at all mean that the changes must be bloody. |
| К.Оуэн: Хорошо, учитывая нынешнее положение дел в Сирии, которое Вам известно, каков должен быть следующий шаг? Каков Ваш реалистический прогноз развития ситуации? Для нас саммит АТЭС является крайне важным и в связи с тем, что Россия стала полноправным членом Всемирной торговой организации. Мы создали на постсоветском пространстве Таможенный союз вместе с Беларусью и Казахстаном и Единое экономическое пространство, и для нас очень важен диалог, чтобы наши партнёры поняли преимущества такого объединения на постсоветском пространстве. |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: Very well; given the present state of affairs in Syria, which you know, what should the next step be? What is your realistic forecast of how the situation will develop? For us the APEC summit is extremely important also because Russia has become a full member of the World Trade Organization. On the post-Soviet space we have created a Customs Union, together with Belarus and Kazakhstan, and a Common Economic Space, and dialogue is very important for us, so that our partners understand the advantages of such a union on the post-Soviet space. |
| В.Путин: Мы в Женеве предложили собраться нашим партнёрам по переговорному процессу. Все действительно собрались и выработали там дорожную карту того, что и как надо было бы делать для того, чтобы в Сирии наступило спокойствие и ситуация вышла бы на конструктивный путь развития. Практически все с нами согласились, мы ознакомили с этими результатами и сирийское правительство, но потом повстанцы, по сути, не захотели признавать этих решений, и многие наши партнёры по переговорному процессу также по‑тихому съехали с этой позиции. Мне думается, первое, что нужно сделать, – это нужно прекратить поставлять оружие в зону конфликта, а ведь это же продолжается. Повторю ещё раз, не принимать решений, которые навязывают одной из сторон, не приемлемые для развития событий. Вот что нужно сделать. Ничего там особо сложного нет. У нас очень добрые отношения, слава богу, вообще с арабским миром, но нам не хочется погружаться во внутриисламские конфликты, принимать участие в выяснении отношений между суннитами и шиитами, алавитами и так далее. Мы с равным уважением относимся ко всем. У нас очень добрые отношения и с Саудовской Аравией, у меня личные добрые отношения всегда были с Хранителем двух исламских святынь, с другими странами. Но наша позиция продиктована только одним – желанием создать благоприятную обстановку для позитивного развития ситуации на многие годы вперёд. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: In Geneva we proposed that our partners in the negotiating process gather. Everyone really did gather and worked out there a road map of what ought to be done, and how, so that calm would come in Syria and the situation would come onto a constructive path of development. Practically everyone agreed with us; we acquainted the Syrian government with these results too, but then the rebels, in essence, did not want to recognize these decisions, and many of our partners in the negotiating process also quietly slid off this position. It seems to me the first thing that must be done is to stop supplying weapons into the conflict zone, and yet this continues. I repeat once more: not to take decisions that impose on one of the sides things that are not acceptable for the development of events. That is what must be done. There is nothing particularly complicated there. We have very good relations, thank God, with the Arab world in general, but we do not want to immerse ourselves in intra-Islamic conflicts, to take part in the settling of accounts between Sunnis and Shiites, Alawites, and so on. We treat everyone with equal respect. We have very good relations with Saudi Arabia too; I have always had personal good relations with the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, and with other countries. But our position is dictated by only one thing — the wish to create a favorable setting for the positive development of the situation for many years ahead. |
| К.Оуэн: Что вы скажете об ООН, в частности, как ООН реагировала на ситуацию в Сирии? Многие критикуют её за то, что она не смогла обеспечить выступление единым фронтом, превратившись в фиктивную организацию. Вы согласны с такой точкой зрения? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: What will you say about the UN, in particular about how the UN reacted to the situation in Syria? Many criticize it for having been unable to ensure action as a united front, turning into a fictitious organization. Do you agree with that point of view? |
| 4 Defence of the UN Security Council | |
| В.Путин: Я думаю, как раз наоборот. Моё мнение полностью противоположно тому, которое Вы сейчас изложили. Если бы Организация Объединённых Наций, Совет Безопасности превратились в контору, которая бы штамповала решения одной из заинтересованных сторон, вот в этом случае она прекратила бы своё существование, как когда‑то это сделала Лига Наций. А Совет Безопасности ООН и ООН в целом – это организация для поиска компромиссов. Это сложный процесс, но только в результате этой кропотливой работы нас может ждать успех. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: I think it is just the opposite. My view is wholly opposite to the one you have just set out. If the United Nations and the Security Council turned into an office that stamped the decisions of one of the interested parties, then in that case it would have ceased to exist, as the League of Nations once did. The UN Security Council, and the UN as a whole, is an organization for seeking compromises. It is a difficult process, but only as a result of this painstaking work can success await us. |
| К.Оуэн: Понимаю. Ещё один вопрос, господин Президент. Отдельные западные и арабские государства всё это время тайно оказывали поддержку Свободной сирийской армии, а сейчас некоторые из них начали делать это в открытую. Но подвох тут в том, что есть подозрения, что в рядах Свободной сирийской армии служат боевики «Аль-Каиды», и история поворачивается таким образом, что многие страны, сами пострадавшие от ужасов терроризма, фактически поддерживают терроризм в Сирии. Вы согласны с такой оценкой? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: I understand. One more question, Mr. President. Certain Western and Arab states have all this time been secretly giving support to the Free Syrian Army, and now some of them have begun to do so openly. But the catch is that there are suspicions that al-Qaeda militants are serving in the ranks of the Free Syrian Army, and the story is turning in such a way that many countries which have themselves suffered the horrors of terrorism are in effect supporting terrorism in Syria. Do you agree with that assessment? |
| 5 Al-Qaeda and Short-Sighted Support for the Rebels | |
| В.Путин: Вы знаете, всегда, когда кто‑то хочет добиться результата, который, по его мнению, считается оптимальным, как правило, не брезгует средствами. Стараются использовать все возможности для достижения нужного результата. Что будет потом, как правило, об этом в ходе работы, по достижении результата не думают. Так было во время афганских событий, когда Советский Союз вошёл своими Вооружёнными Силами в Афганистан, когда наши сегодняшние партнёры поддерживали там повстанческое движение и, по сути, создали «Аль-Каиду», которая затем нанесла удар по самим Соединённым Штатам. Сегодня кто‑то хочет использовать бойцов «Аль-Каиды» либо людей из других организаций, но с такими же крайними взглядами для достижения своих целей в Сирии. Это очень опасная и недальновидная политика. Но тогда нужно взять сейчас и открыть ворота Гуантанамо и оттуда всех узников Гуантанамо запустить в Сирию, пускай повоюют. Ведь на самом деле это то же самое. Просто не нужно забывать, что потом эти граждане нанесут удар своим благодетелям. А этим гражданам нельзя забывать, что для них будет создана другая тюрьма наподобие той, которая сейчас создана рядом с Кубой. Это, ещё раз хочу подчеркнуть, политика недальновидная. И, как правило, вот такой подход ведёт к очень тяжёлым последствиям. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: You know, always, when someone wants to achieve a result that in his opinion is considered optimal, as a rule he is not fastidious about the means. They try to use every possibility for achieving the needed result. What will happen afterward, as a rule, they do not think about that in the course of the work, once the result is achieved. So it was during the Afghan events, when the Soviet Union entered Afghanistan with its Armed Forces, when our present-day partners supported the rebel movement there and, in essence, created al-Qaeda, which then struck at the United States themselves. Today someone wants to use al-Qaeda fighters, or people from other organizations but with the same extreme views, to achieve his goals in Syria. This is a very dangerous and shortsighted policy. But then one ought to take and open the gates of Guantanamo now and let all the prisoners of Guantanamo loose into Syria; let them fight. In fact this is the same thing. One simply must not forget that afterward these citizens will strike at their benefactors. And these citizens must not forget that another prison will be created for them, of the kind that has now been created next to Cuba. This, I want to stress once more, is a shortsighted policy. And as a rule an approach of this kind leads to very grave consequences. |
| К.Оуэн: Давайте теперь посмотрим на ситуацию шире, не только в контексте Сирии, которую вы упомянули. В Сирии бушует гражданская война, конфликты не стихают в Бахрейне и в Саудовской Аравии. Да, в Египте, Ливии и Тунисе поспокойнее, как Вы только что отметили. Но, давая общую оценку тем перипетиям, той смуте, что мы наблюдали на Ближнем Востоке, – несёт это добро или зло? И куда это заведёт весь регион? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: Let us now look at the situation more broadly, not only in the context of Syria, which you mentioned. A civil war is raging in Syria; the conflicts are not dying down in Bahrain and in Saudi Arabia. Yes, in Egypt, Libya, and Tunisia it is calmer, as you have just noted. But in giving an overall assessment of those twists and turns, of that turmoil we observed in the Middle East — does this bring good or evil? And where will this lead the whole region? |
| 6 The Arab Spring's Roots and Uncertain Outcome | |
| В.Путин: Знаете, по этому вопросу можно дискутировать до утра, и может быть, времени будет недостаточно. Для меня совершенно очевидно, что эти события подготовлены самим ходом истории, развития этих государств. Руководители этих стран явно просмотрели необходимость перемен, не почувствовали тех тенденций, которые происходят в их собственных странах и в мире, и не произвели своевременно необходимых реформ. Это результат прежде всего такого состояния дел. Благо это или это приведёт к большим проблемам, пока трудно сказать. Самым важным является сегодня прекратить насилие [в Сирии], заставить все стороны конфликта сесть за стол переговоров, определить будущее, обеспечивающее безопасность всех участников внутриполитического процесса, и только после этого переходить к каким‑то практическим шагам по поводу внутреннего устройства самой страны. То, что это происходило именно в такой малоцивилизованной форме, с таким уровнем насилия и не привело пока, во всяком случае, к созданию таких устойчивых политических структур, которые могли бы решить экономические и социальные проблемы в обществах тех стран, в которых эти события прошли, вот эти обстоятельства всё‑таки вызывают большие опасения и большую тревогу по поводу того, как будут развиваться события. Потому что всё‑таки, в конце концов, люди в этих странах, которые устали от прежних режимов, ожидают от новых правительств эффективного решения, прежде всего их социальных и экономических проблем. Но если не будет политической стабильности, то эти проблемы решены быть не могут. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: You know, one can debate this question until morning, and perhaps the time will not be enough. For me it is completely obvious that these events were prepared by the very course of history, by the development of these states. The leaders of these countries plainly overlooked the necessity of change, did not sense the tendencies taking place in their own countries and in the world, and did not carry out the necessary reforms in time. This is above all the result of such a state of affairs. Whether this is a blessing or whether it will lead to great problems is still hard to say. The most important thing today is to stop the violence [in Syria], to compel all sides of the conflict to sit down at the negotiating table, to determine a future that ensures the security of all participants in the domestic political process, and only after that to move on to any practical steps concerning the internal arrangement of the country itself. That this took place precisely in such a scarcely civilized form, with such a level of violence, and has not yet led, in any case, to the creation of such stable political structures as could solve the economic and social problems in the societies of those countries in which these events took place — these circumstances all the same arouse great fears and great anxiety about how events will develop. Because in the end, all the same, the people in these countries, who are tired of the former regimes, expect from the new governments an effective solution, above all, of their social and economic problems. But if there is no political stability, these problems cannot be solved. |
| К.Оуэн: Давайте обратимся к США, к предстоящим президентским выборам, которых все мы с волнением ожидаем. Безусловно, кнопка перезагрузки отношений с Россией была решительно нажата Бараком Обамой, и за последние четыре года в этом процессе были свои взлёты и падения, но по‑прежнему остаётся проблема ПРО в Восточной Европе, вызывающая обеспокоенность России. Если Обама Обама Барак будет переизбран, что будет определять новую главу в истории российско-американских отношений, и будет ли эта глава приемлема для вас? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: Let us turn to the United States, to the forthcoming presidential election, which all of us await with unease. The button resetting relations with Russia was of course pressed decisively by Barack Obama, and over the past four years this process has had its ups and its downs, but the problem of missile defense in Eastern Europe, which causes Russia concern, still remains. If Obama Obama Barack is re-elected, what will determine the new chapter in the history of Russian–American relations, and will that chapter be acceptable to you? |
| 7 US Missile Defence and the Strategic Balance | |
| В.Путин: Мне представляется, что за последние годы, за последние четыре года Президенту Обаме и Президенту Медведеву удалось многое сделать в укреплении российско-американских отношений. Подписан новый Договор СНВ, Россия при поддержке Соединённых Штатов стала полноправным членом Всемирной торговой организации, были и другие позитивные элементы в наших двусторонних отношениях, имея в виду укрепление нашего сотрудничества по борьбе с терроризмом, с организованной преступностью, по сдерживанию распространения оружия массового уничтожения, то есть позитива накоплено немало. Но проблема, которую Вы упомянули, проблема ПРО, противоракетная оборона Соединённых Штатов, она, конечно, является сегодня одной из ключевых, потому что затрагивает жизненно важные интересы Российской Федерации. На экспертном уровне для всех понятно, что решение этой проблемы в одностороннем порядке международную стабильность не улучшает. Это, по сути, стремление нарушить стратегический баланс. А это очень опасная вещь, потому что любая другая сторона будет стремиться к обеспечению своей обороноспособности, что может просто привести к гонке вооружений. Возможно ли эту проблему решить, если Президентом Соединённых Штатов на второй срок будет избран действующий Президент Обама? Принципиально – да. Но дело не только в самом Президенте Обаме. Мне думается, что он искренне хочет эту проблему решить. У нас недавно с ним была встреча на полях саммита «двадцатки» в Лос-Кабосе в Мексике, мы имели возможность поговорить. Правда, больше говорили о Сирии, но всё равно я же чувствую настрой своего партнёра, собеседника. Мне кажется, что он искренний человек и реально хочет многое поменять к лучшему. Но сможет ли он это сделать, дадут ли ему? Ведь есть и военное лобби, есть Госдеп с его достаточно консервативной машиной. Кстати, он мало чем отличается от нашего Министерства иностранных дел. Там сложились такие профессиональные кланы в течение десятилетий. Ведь для того чтобы решить проблему ПРО, надо согласиться и внутренне принять, что мы друг для друга являемся надёжными партнёрами и союзниками. Потому что решить проблему ПРО – что это значит? Это значит вместе решать вопросы, связанные с ракетными угрозами, и согласиться с тем, что обе стороны имеют равноценный доступ к управлению этой системой. Это чрезвычайно чувствительная сфера деятельности в оборонной сфере. Я не знаю, готовы ли наши партнёры к такому сотрудничеству. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: It seems to me that over recent years, over the last four years, President Obama and President Medvedev have succeeded in doing much to strengthen Russian-American relations. A new START Treaty has been signed; Russia, with the support of the United States, has become a full member of the World Trade Organization; there have been other positive elements in our bilateral relations too, having in mind the strengthening of our cooperation in the fight against terrorism, against organized crime, in containing the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction; that is, a good deal of the positive has accumulated. But the problem you mentioned, the problem of missile defense, the missile defense of the United States, is of course one of the key ones today, because it touches the vitally important interests of the Russian Federation. At the expert level it is clear to everyone that solving this problem unilaterally does not improve international stability. This is, in essence, a striving to upset the strategic balance. And this is a very dangerous thing, because any other side will strive to ensure its defense capability, which can simply lead to an arms race. Is it possible to solve this problem if the acting President Obama is elected President of the United States for a second term? In principle, yes. But the point is not only in President Obama himself. It seems to me that he sincerely wants to solve this problem. We recently had a meeting with him on the margins of the summit of the Twenty in Los Cabos in Mexico; we had the possibility of talking. True, we spoke more about Syria, but all the same I sense the mood of my partner, my interlocutor. It seems to me that he is a sincere person and really wants to change much for the better. But will he be able to do this; will they let him? After all, there is also the military lobby; there is the State Department with its fairly conservative machine. By the way, it differs little from our Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Such professional clans have taken shape there over the decades. After all, in order to solve the missile-defense problem, one must agree and inwardly accept that we are reliable partners and allies for each other. Because what does it mean to solve the missile-defense problem? It means jointly solving questions connected with missile threats, and agreeing that both sides have equivalent access to the control of this system. This is an extremely sensitive sphere of activity in the defense sphere. I do not know whether our partners are ready for such cooperation. |
| К.Оуэн: Может ли Россия сделать какие‑то шаги в направлении оптимального решения для обеих сторон, для компромисса? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: Can Russia take some steps toward an optimal solution for both sides, toward a compromise? |
| В.Путин: Мы уже всё сделали. Мы предложили вот эту работу. Наши партнёры пока отказываются. Что мы ещё можем сделать? Можем продолжать дальше вести диалог. Мы и будем это делать, но, разумеется, по мере того, как наши американские друзья развивают свою собственную систему противоракетной обороны, мы будем думать о том, как защитить себя и сохранить этот стратегический баланс. Кстати говоря, что касается и европейских партнёров Соединённых Штатов, и наших европейских партнёров, чтобы было понятно, что европейцы не имеют к этому никакого отношения. Я думаю, что Вам как европейцу это должно быть ясно. Это чисто американская система противоракетной обороны, причём стратегическая, и в европейской части вынесенная на периферию. Европейцы ведь тоже не имеют никакого доступа ни к определению угроз, ни к управлению, так же как и Россия. Но мы предлагали в своё время, чтобы мы делали это как минимум втроём, но пока наши партнёры с этим не соглашаются. Совет Безопасности ООН и ООН в целом – это организация для поиска компромиссов. Это сложный процесс, но только в результате этой кропотливой работы нас может ждать успех. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: We have already done everything. We proposed this work. Our partners are refusing for now. What else can we do? We can go on conducting a dialogue. And we will do so, but of course, as our American friends develop their own missile-defense system, we will think about how to protect ourselves and preserve this strategic balance. By the way, as regards both the European partners of the United States and our European partners, so that it is clear that the Europeans have nothing to do with this. I think that to you, as a European, this ought to be clear. This is a purely American missile-defense system, and a strategic one at that, and in the European part it has been pushed out to the periphery. The Europeans too have no access either to the definition of threats or to the control of it, just as Russia does not. But we proposed in our time that we do this at least as three, but so far our partners do not agree to this. The UN Security Council, and the UN as a whole, is an organization for seeking compromises. It is a difficult process, but only as a result of this painstaking work can success await us. |
| К.Оуэн: Иными словами, будем считать, что Вы сможете работать с Бараком Обамой, если его переизберут. А если выберут Митта Ромни? У меня здесь подборка его цитат за последние один-два месяца. Человек, который может оказаться в Белом Доме, говорит: «Россия – наш безусловный геополитический противник номер один, всегда отстаивающая худшее, что есть в мире». Затем он отмечает: «На мировой арене Россия ведёт себя недружелюбно». Сможете ли Вы работать с этим человеком? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: In other words, we are to take it that you will be able to work with Barack Obama if he is re-elected. And if Mitt Romney is elected? I have here a selection of his quotations from the last one or two months. A man who may end up in the White House says: "Russia is our unconditional geopolitical opponent number one, always upholding the worst there is in the world." Then he notes: "On the world stage Russia behaves in an unfriendly way." Will you be able to work with this man? |
| 8 US Elections — Obama versus Romney | |
| В.Путин: Сможем. Кого американский народ изберёт, с тем и будем работать, но будем работать настолько эффективно, как этого захотят наши партнёры. Что же касается позиции господина Ромни, мы понимаем, что она отчасти носит предвыборный характер, это предвыборная риторика, но думаю, что она, конечно, безусловно, ошибочна. Потому что вести себя так на международной арене – это всё равно что использовать инструменты национализма и сегрегации во внутренней политике своей собственной страны. На международной арене – то же самое, когда политический деятель либо человек, претендующий на то, чтобы быть главой государства, тем более такой великой страны, как Соединённые Штаты, уже априори кого‑то объявляет своим врагом. Кстати говоря, это наводит нас на другую мысль. Вот мы говорим о системе противоракетной обороны. И нам наши американские партнёры говорят: «Это не против вас». А что, если Президентом Соединённых Штатов будет господин Ромни, который считает нас врагом №1? Значит, это тогда уж точно будет против нас, потому что технологически там всё выстроено именно таким образом. А если иметь в виду, что ПРО рассчитана не на один год и даже не на одно десятилетие, и возможность прихода к власти человека со взглядами господина Ромни очень высока. Как мы должны себя вести, чтобы обеспечить свою безопасность? |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: We will be able to. Whomever the American people elect, with him we will work, but we will work as effectively as our partners wish. As for Mr. Romney's position, we understand that it is in part of an electoral character, campaign rhetoric, but I think that it is of course certainly mistaken. Because to behave this way in the international arena is the same as using the instruments of nationalism and segregation in the domestic policy of one's own country. In the international arena it is the same, when a political figure, or a person claiming to be the head of state, all the more of so great a country as the United States, declares someone his enemy in advance. By the way, this leads us to another thought. We speak of the missile-defense system. And our American partners tell us: "This is not against you." And what if the President of the United States is Mr. Romney, who considers us enemy No. 1? Then it will certainly be against us, because technologically everything there is built precisely in that way. And if one bears in mind that missile defense is calculated not for one year and not even for one decade, and that the possibility of a person with Mr. Romney's views coming to power is very high. How ought we to conduct ourselves in order to ensure our security? |
| К.Оуэн: Я также хотел бы поговорить о том, как разворачиваются события по делу Магнитского. США и в последнее время Великобритания составляют список российских чиновников, которых они подозревают в причастности к гибели Магнитского. Хочу напомнить нашим зрителям, что этот крупный финансовый консультант скончался в российской тюрьме. За рубежом многие по‑прежнему думают, что здесь, в России, следствие было необъективно, что виновные не понесли должного наказания. Откуда взялось такое мнение? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: I would also like to talk about how events in the Magnitsky case are unfolding. The United States and, of late, Britain are drawing up a list of Russian officials whom they suspect of involvement in Magnitsky's death. I want to remind our viewers that this major financial consultant died in a Russian prison. Abroad many still think that here, in Russia, the investigation was not objective, and that the guilty did not receive the punishment due. Where did such an opinion come from? |
| 9 The Magnitsky Case | |
| В.Путин: Просто есть такие люди, которые этого хотят. Им нужен враг, им нужен образ врага, они должны с кем‑то бороться. Вы знаете, что в тюрьмах тех стран, которые обвиняют Россию, сколько там гибнет людей, в тюрьмах? Очень большое количество! Вот Соединённые Штаты инициировали «список Магнитского». Вы знаете, что в России нет смертной казни? Вам это известно? А в США есть. И там казнят женщин в том числе. Всему цивилизованному обществу известно, что при применении смертной казни нередко происходят и судебные ошибки, даже в том случае, когда человек полностью признаёт свою вину, а потом задним числом выясняется, что на самом деле он этого преступления не совершал. Я уж не говорю о том, что отнять жизнь у человека позволено только Господу Богу. Но это отдельная дискуссия, большая, философская. Мы могли бы, наверное, объявить не один список, имея в виду тех, кто применяет смертную казнь в других странах. Но мы этого не делаем. За последние четыре года удалось многое сделать в укреплении российско-американских отношений. Подписан новый Договор СНВ, Россия при поддержке Соединённых Штатов стала полноправным членом Всемирной торговой организации, были и другие позитивные элементы в наших двусторонних отношениях. Что касается Магнитского, это, конечно, трагедия, когда человек умер в тюрьме. И, разумеется, должно быть проведено тщательное расследование. Если кто‑то виноват, значит, этот кто‑то должен быть наказан. Но я хочу что подчеркнуть? Здесь нет никакой, просто ровно никакой политической подоплёки. Если есть трагедия, то она носит чисто уголовно-правовой и формальный характер. Ничего за этим больше нет. Но кому‑то хочется испортить отношения с Россией. Кто‑то объявил невъездными в свои страны каких‑то наших чиновников, которые якобы имеют отношение к гибели господина Магнитского, о чём я, безусловно, очень сожалею и приношу соболезнования его семье. Но что в таких случаях должна сделать Россия? Принять адекватные меры, объявить список чиновников другой стороны, которая приняла в отношении России такие меры. Так и делать. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: There are simply people who want this. They need an enemy; they need the image of an enemy; they have to fight someone. Do you know how many people perish in the prisons of those countries that accuse Russia? A very large number! The United States initiated the "Magnitsky list." Do you know that there is no death penalty in Russia? Is this known to you? But in the United States there is. And they execute women there too. It is known to all civilized society that when the death penalty is applied, judicial errors not infrequently occur as well, even in the case when a person fully admits his guilt, and then it turns out after the fact that in reality he did not commit this crime. I am not even speaking of the fact that only the Lord God is permitted to take a person's life. But that is a separate discussion, a large, philosophical one. We could probably announce not one list, having in mind those who apply the death penalty in other countries. But we do not do this. Over the last four years much has been done to strengthen Russian-American relations. A new START Treaty has been signed; Russia, with the support of the United States, has become a full member of the World Trade Organization; there have been other positive elements in our bilateral relations too. As for Magnitsky, this is of course a tragedy, when a person died in prison. And, of course, a thorough investigation must be carried out. If someone is guilty, then that someone must be punished. But what do I want to emphasize? There is no, simply precisely no, political subtext here. If there is a tragedy, it is of a purely criminal-law and formal character. There is nothing more behind it. But someone wants to spoil relations with Russia. Someone has declared some of our officials barred from entry into their countries, officials who allegedly have a relation to the death of Mr. Magnitsky, which I, without doubt, very much regret, and I offer condolences to his family. But what must Russia do in such cases? Take adequate measures, announce a list of officials of the other side that has taken such measures in relation to Russia. And so it will do. |
| К.Оуэн: То есть это дело однозначно не будет пересматриваться в России? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: So this case will definitely not be reviewed again in Russia? |
| В.Путин: Какое дело? Мы что там должны пересматривать? Мы должны определить только, виноват ли кто‑то в гибели этого человека или нет. Если кто‑то виноват, на нём лежит какая‑то ответственность, то он должен быть привлечён сам к ответственности. Вот и всё. И здесь нет никакой подоплёки политического характера, хочу это подчеркнуть. Но в этом нужно просто профессионально разобраться. И конечно, российские власти намерены это сделать. Прокуратура этим занимается. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: What case? What is there for us to review? We must determine only whether someone is guilty of this person's death or not. If someone is guilty, if some responsibility lies upon him, then he himself must be brought to account. That is all. And there is no political subtext here; I want to stress this. But this simply needs to be sorted out professionally. And of course the Russian authorities intend to do this. The prosecutor's office is dealing with it. |
| К.Оуэн: Спасибо. А сейчас о суде над панк-группой «Пусси Райот» и приговоре. Очень многие говорили, что вынесенный им приговор слишком суров, что это дело раздули на пустом месте, что в результате это придало действиям девушек ещё большую огласку и принесло поддержку общественности. Конечно, что сделано, того не вернёшь – и всё‑таки, по Вашему мнению, могло ли быть иное решение? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: Thank you. And now about the trial of the punk group Pussy Riot and the sentence. Very many people said that the sentence handed down to them was too harsh, that the case was blown up out of nothing, that as a result this gave the girls' actions even greater publicity and brought public support. Of course, what has been done cannot be undone — and still, in your opinion, could there have been a different decision? |
| В.Путин: А Вы могли бы перевести название группы на русский язык? Вы ведь уже не один год живёте в России. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: Could you translate the name of the group into Russian? After all, you have already been living in Russia for more than one year. |
| К.Оуэн: Не могу сказать, как «Пусси Райот» переводится на русский, может быть, Вы подскажете? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: I cannot say how "Pussy Riot" is translated into Russian; perhaps you can suggest it? |
| В.Путин: А Вы можете перевести само слово на русский язык или нет? Или Вам неудобно это сделать по этическим соображениям? Думаю, что это неудобно сделать по этическим соображениям. Даже в английском языке это звучит неприлично. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: And can you translate the word itself into Russian, or not? Or is it awkward for you to do so for ethical reasons? I think it is awkward to do so for ethical reasons. Even in English it sounds indecent. |
| К.Оуэн: Я бы перевёл это слово как «кошка», но может быть, я чего‑то не понимаю. Считаете ли Вы, что можно было что‑то сделать иначе? Можно ли из происшедшего извлечь какие‑то уроки? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: I would translate this word as "cat," but perhaps I do not understand something. Do you think that something could have been done differently? Can any lessons be drawn from what happened? |
| 10 Pussy Riot and the Moral Dimension | |
| В.Путин: Всё Вы понимаете, Вы всё прекрасно понимаете, не нужно делать вид, что Вы чего‑то не понимаете. Просто граждане эти навязали общественному мнению своё название и заставили всех вас произносить его вслух. Ведь это неприлично, но бог с ними. Хотел бы сказать вот о чём, что я считал и считаю, что наказание должно быть адекватно содеянному. Я сейчас не готов и не хочу комментировать решение российского суда, но хотел бы обратить Ваше внимание просто на моральную сторону дела. Она в чём заключается? Что касается Магнитского, это, конечно, трагедия, когда человек умер в тюрьме. И, разумеется, должно быть проведено тщательное расследование. Если кто‑то виноват, значит, этот кто‑то должен быть наказан. Во‑первых, не знаю, известно Вам или нет, но пару лет назад в одном из больших супермаркетов Москвы они повесили три чучела, одна из участниц этой группы сегодняшней повесила три чучела в публичном месте с надписью, что нужно освободить Москву от евреев, от гомосексуалистов и от гастарбайтеров – иностранных рабочих. Мне кажется, что уже тогда власти должны были бы обратить на это внимание. После этого они устроили сеанс группового секса в публичном месте. Это, как говорится, их дело, люди вправе заниматься всем, чем хотят, если это не нарушает закон, но в публичном месте, мне кажется, что уже тогда следовало бы обратить на это внимание властей. Потом ещё выложили [запись] в интернет. Некоторые из любителей говорят, что групповой секс лучше, чем индивидуальный, потому что здесь, так же как в любой коллективной работе, сачкануть можно. Но повторяю, это дело каждого конкретного человека, но выкладывать в интернет – это, на мой взгляд, вопрос спорный и мог бы подлежать тоже какой‑то правовой оценке. То, что они сделали в храме: они сначала в Елоховскую церковь пришли и там устроили шабаш, потом перебрались в другой храм и там устроили ещё один шабаш. Вы знаете, у нас в стране есть очень тяжёлые воспоминания начального периода советского времени, когда пострадало огромное количество священников, причём не только православных священников, но и мусульман, и представителей других религий. Просто советская власть, особенно в первый период своего существования, очень жестоко расправлялась с представителями религиозных конфессий. Было уничтожено много церквей, все наши традиционные конфессии понесли огромный ущерб. И в целом государство обязано защищать чувства верующих. Является ли оправданным приговор, является ли он обоснованным и является ли он адекватным содеянному, я сейчас не буду комментировать. Я думаю, что у этих девушек есть адвокаты, и они должны заниматься представлением их интересов в суде. Могут оспорить приговор в вышестоящей инстанции и добиваться его пересмотра. Но это их дело, это чисто юридический вопрос. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: You understand everything; you understand everything perfectly well; there is no need to pretend that you do not understand something. These citizens simply imposed their name on public opinion and compelled all of you to pronounce it aloud. This is indecent, after all, but God be with them. I would like to say this: that I considered and consider that punishment must be adequate to what was done. I am not ready now and do not want to comment on the decision of the Russian court, but I would like to draw your attention simply to the moral side of the matter. What does it consist of? As for Magnitsky, this is of course a tragedy, when a person died in prison. And, of course, a thorough investigation must be carried out. If someone is guilty, then that someone must be punished. First, I do not know whether it is known to you or not, but a couple of years ago in one of the large supermarkets of Moscow they hung three dummies; one of the participants in this group of today hung three dummies in a public place with an inscription that Moscow must be freed of Jews, of homosexuals, and of gastarbeiters — foreign workers. It seems to me that even then the authorities ought to have paid attention to this. After that they arranged a session of group sex in a public place. This, as the saying goes, is their affair; people have the right to occupy themselves with whatever they want if it does not violate the law, but in a public place it seems to me that even then the attention of the authorities ought to have been drawn to this. Then they also posted [a recording] on the internet. Some enthusiasts say that group sex is better than individual sex, because here, just as in any collective work, one can slack off. But I repeat, this is the affair of each specific person, but posting it on the internet is, in my view, a debatable question and could also be subject to some legal assessment. What they did in the church: they first came to the Yelokhovo Church and arranged a sabbath there, then moved to another church and arranged one more sabbath there. You know, in our country there are very heavy memories of the initial period of Soviet times, when an enormous number of priests suffered, and not only Orthodox priests but also Muslims and representatives of other religions. The Soviet authority, especially in the first period of its existence, simply dealt very cruelly with representatives of religious confessions. Many churches were destroyed; all our traditional confessions suffered enormous damage. And on the whole the state is obliged to protect the feelings of believers. Whether the sentence is justified, whether it is well-founded, and whether it is adequate to what was done, I will not comment now. I think these girls have lawyers, and they must occupy themselves with representing their interests in court. They can challenge the sentence in a higher instance and seek its review. But that is their affair; this is a purely legal question. |
| К.Оуэн: Как Вы думаете, реалистично рассчитывать на досрочное освобождение? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: What do you think, is it realistic to count on early release? |
| В.Путин: Я даже не знаю, их адвокаты обращались в вышестоящую инстанцию или нет. Просто я не слежу за этим. Но если вышестоящая инстанция будет рассматривать, она вправе принять любое решение. Понимаете, я просто стараюсь не касаться этого дела вообще. Я знаю о том, что там происходит, но я туда совершенно не влезаю. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: I do not even know whether their lawyers appealed to a higher instance or not. I simply do not follow this. But if a higher instance considers it, it has the right to take any decision. You see, I simply try not to touch this case at all. I know what is happening there, but I do not get involved there at all. |
| К.Оуэн: В России и за её пределами многие считают, что с тех пор как Вы вернулись на пост Президента, началось «закручивание гаек» в отношении оппозиции. Был принят более жёсткий закон о клевете, где увеличены штрафы за распространение ложных сведений, закон о цензуре в интернете для защиты детей. И всё это при Вашей поддержке. Как, на Ваш взгляд, найти оптимальный баланс между здоровой оппозицией и поддержанием правопорядка? Каково Ваше мнение? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: In Russia and beyond its borders many consider that since you returned to the post of President, a "tightening of the screws" has begun with regard to the opposition. A stricter law on defamation was adopted, in which the fines for spreading false information were increased, and a law on censorship on the internet for the protection of children. And all of this with your support. How, in your view, is the best balance to be found between a healthy opposition and the maintenance of law and order? What is your opinion? |
| В.Путин: Я хотел поинтересоваться, а разве в других странах нет законов, запрещающих детскую порнографию, в том числе и в интернете? |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: I wanted to ask: do other countries really not have laws prohibiting child pornography, including on the internet? |
| К.Оуэн: Конечно, есть. |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: Of course there is. |
| В.Путин: Есть? А у нас не было до сих пор. Если мы начали защищать своё общество, своих детей от этих посягательств… |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: There is? But we did not have that until now. If we have begun to protect our society, our children, from these encroachments… |
| К.Оуэн: Возможно, так был выбран момент? Как раз тогда Вы вновь заняли президентское кресло, и это выглядело как довольно жёсткий шаг с Вашей стороны…. У нас в стране есть очень тяжёлые воспоминания начального периода советского времени, когда пострадало огромное количество не только православных священников, но и мусульман, и представителей других религий. Было уничтожено много церквей, все наши традиционные конфессии понесли огромный ущерб. И в целом государство обязано защищать чувства верующих. |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: Perhaps that was how the moment was chosen? Just then you had taken the presidential chair again, and this looked like a rather harsh step on your part…. In our country there are very heavy memories of the early period of Soviet times, when an enormous number not only of Orthodox priests suffered, but Muslims too, and representatives of other religions. Many churches were destroyed; all our traditional confessions suffered enormous damage. And on the whole the state is obliged to protect the feelings of believers. |
| 11 Democratic Reforms versus "Tightening the Screws" | |
| В.Путин: Вы знаете, я стараюсь об этом просто не думать, я стараюсь делать то, что считаю правильным и нужным для нашей страны, для наших граждан, для наших людей. И буду так поступать в будущем. Конечно, я смотрю, что происходит по сторонам, как реагируют в мире. Но эта реакция не может быть основным мотивом моего поведения. Основным мотивом может быть только интерес российского народа, а наши дети нуждаются в такой защите. Никто не собирается использовать это как инструмент борьбы с интернетом, ограничение свобод в интернете, но мы вправе защитить наших детей. Что же касается в целом «закручивания гаек», то это надо понять, о чём мы говорим. Что такое «закручивание гаек»? Если под этим понимать требование ко всем, в том числе и к представителям оппозиции, исполнять закон, то да, это требование будет последовательно реализовываться. Скажите, полтора или два года назад в Великобритании мы были свидетелями массовых беспорядков на улице, в результате которых пострадали люди, нанесён был большой ущерб имуществу. Разве лучше доводить до такого состояния, а потом в течение года всех отлавливать и сажать в тюрьму? Может быть, лучше не допускать таких проявлений? Это первая часть. Теперь вторая часть, по сути и по существу. Я, как Вы знаете, самым активным образом поддержал переход к новой системе приведения к власти руководителей российских регионов путём прямого тайного голосования населения. Но я не только это поддержал год назад, я сделал следующий шаг. Я, уже будучи избранным Президентом на следующий срок, внёс в парламент страны новый законопроект о выборах верхней палаты российского парламента. Вот это реальные шаги по пути демократизации нашего общества и государства. Были инициированы и другие предложения, в частности, в законодательном процессе. Государственная Дума – сейчас мы в предварительном плане с депутатами Госдумы рассматриваем возможность использования интернет-голосования по ключевым вопросам нашего развития, и если 100 тысяч какой‑то проект набирает в интернете, он должен быть потом рассмотрен в Государственной Думе. Вот сейчас мы как раз обсуждаем этот вопрос, как реализовать это предложение. Есть и другие предложения фундаментального характера. Мы ставим перед собой цель развития нашего общества, дальнейшей его демократизации и по этому пути будем двигаться дальше, не собираемся с него сворачивать. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: You know, I try simply not to think about this; I try to do what I consider right and necessary for our country, for our citizens, for our people. And I will act so in the future. Of course I look at what is happening on the sides, at how the world reacts. But this reaction cannot be the main motive of my behavior. The main motive can only be the interest of the Russian people, and our children need such protection. No one intends to use this as an instrument of struggle against the internet, a restriction of freedoms on the internet, but we have the right to protect our children. As for "tightening the screws" on the whole, one must understand what we are talking about. What is "tightening the screws"? If by this one understands the demand that everyone, including representatives of the opposition, fulfill the law, then yes, this demand will be consistently realized. Tell me, a year and a half or two years ago in Great Britain we were witnesses of mass disorders in the street, as a result of which people suffered and great damage was done to property. Is it better to bring things to such a state, and then over the course of a year catch everyone and put them in prison? Perhaps it is better not to allow such manifestations? That is the first part. Now the second part, in essence and in substance. I, as you know, in the most active way supported the transition to a new system of bringing the heads of Russian regions to power by direct secret voting of the population. But I not only supported this a year ago; I took the next step. I, already having been elected President for the next term, introduced into the country's parliament a new bill on elections to the upper chamber of the Russian parliament. These are real steps along the path of democratizing our society and state. Other proposals were initiated too, in particular in the legislative process. The State Duma — we are now, in a preliminary way, considering with the deputies of the State Duma the possibility of using internet voting on key questions of our development, and if some draft gathers 100 thousand on the internet, it must afterward be considered in the State Duma. Right now we are discussing precisely this question, how to realize this proposal. There are other proposals of a fundamental character too. We set ourselves the aim of developing our society, of its further democratization, and we will move further along this path; we do not intend to turn off it. |
| К.Оуэн: Мы начали разговор с предстоящего саммита АТЭС, куда Вы вскоре вылетаете. Там Вы встретитесь с председателем КНР Ху Цзиньтао Ху Цзиньтао , однако с Бараком Обамой не увидитесь – он не приедет, вместо него прибудет Хилари Клинтон Клинтон Хиллари . Конечно, мы знаем, что у него плотный график, но, возможно, это говорит о его отношении к АТЭС? Может быть, это свидетельство того, что Китай становится всё более важным геополитическим и торговым партнёром для России? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: We began the conversation with the forthcoming APEC summit, to which you will soon be flying. There you will meet the Chairman of the PRC, Hu Jintao Hu Jintao; you will not, however, see Barack Obama — he is not coming; Hillary Clinton Clinton Hillary will arrive in his place. Of course we know that his schedule is packed, but perhaps this says something about his attitude to APEC? Might this be evidence that China is becoming an ever more important geopolitical and trade partner for Russia? |
| 12 China as a Rising Partner | |
| В.Путин: Китай действительно становится серьёзным центром мировой экономики и мировой политики. Вообще в мире происходит определённый сдвиг в центрах экономического и политического влияния. Это очевидный факт, это всем понятно, вопрос только в темпах этого движения. Китай становится таким центром не только для нас, а для всех своих партнёров в мире, мы здесь никакое не исключение. Разница только в том, что Китай – наш сосед, а мы – соседи Китая. У нас выработались тысячелетиями особые отношения между собой. У нас были и очень позитивные годы сотрудничества, очень эффективные для обеих стран. Были и тяжёлые времена, когда мы конфликтовали. Сейчас уровень российско-китайских отношений беспрецедентно высокий, очень доверительный и в политической сфере, и в области экономики. Мы в ближайшие годы, безусловно, достигнем планки оборота в 100 миллиардов долларов. У нас с Европой 51 процент, 200 с лишним миллиардов, с Китаем будет 100. Это уже такое серьёзное движение вперёд. То, что на этом саммите не будет Президента Обамы, нам американские партнёры об этом сказали давно. Связано это с внутриполитическими событиями, с предвыборной кампанией в США, здесь нет ничего необычного. Соединённые Штаты будут представлены на высоком уровне. Мы об этом знаем, повторяю, уже несколько месяцев, относимся с пониманием. Там у нас будет представительство очень высокое – 20 стран, все представлены первыми лицами и главами правительств и государств. То, что на этот раз Президенту США не удалось приехать, что же поделать, жаль. Я думаю, что если бы такая возможность была, он воспользовался, имея в виду, что и для самих Соединённых Штатов это же хорошая площадка, чтобы пообщаться с коллегами в Азиатско-Тихоокеанском регионе. Не только с нами, но и с другими коллегами. А мы совсем недавно с Президентом встречались, я уже об этом говорил, в Мексике, имели возможность поговорить подробно по проблемам двусторонних отношений, по основным ключевым мировым событиям, так что у нас диалог продолжается. Мы ставим перед собой цель развития нашего общества, дальнейшей его демократизации и по этому пути будем двигаться дальше, не собираемся с него сворачивать. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: China is indeed becoming a serious center of the world economy and of world politics. In general a certain shift in the centers of economic and political influence is taking place in the world. This is an obvious fact; this is clear to everyone; the question is only the pace of this movement. China is becoming such a center not only for us but for all its partners in the world; we are no exception here. The difference is only that China is our neighbor, and we are neighbors of China. Over the millennia special relations have been worked out between us. We have had very positive years of cooperation too, very effective for both countries. There have also been hard times, when we were in conflict. Now the level of Russian-Chinese relations is unprecedentedly high, very trustful both in the political sphere and in the field of the economy. In the coming years we will without doubt reach the bar of a turnover of 100 billion dollars. With Europe we have 51 percent, 200-plus billion; with China it will be 100. This is already a serious movement forward. That President Obama will not be at this summit, our American partners told us long ago. This is connected with domestic political events, with the election campaign in the United States; there is nothing unusual here. The United States will be represented at a high level. We know this, I repeat, already for several months, and we regard it with understanding. There we will have a very high level of representation — 20 countries, all represented by first persons and by heads of governments and states. That this time the President of the United States did not manage to come, what is one to do; it is a pity. I think that if such a possibility had existed, he would have used it, having in mind that for the United States themselves this is a good platform for talking with colleagues in the Asia-Pacific region. Not only with us, but with other colleagues too. And quite recently we met with the President, I have already spoken of this, in Mexico, and had the possibility of talking in detail about the problems of bilateral relations and about the main key world events, so our dialogue continues. We set ourselves the aim of developing our society, of its further democratization, and we will move further along this path; we do not intend to turn off it. |
| К.Оуэн: Возвращаясь к внутренней политике, давайте поговорим о коррупции. В России это слово у всех на устах. Вы тоже поднимали этот вопрос, но приоритетным его сделал Ваш предшественник. Однако, покидая свой пост, Дмитрий Медведев назвал свои достижения в этой области скромными. Насколько серьёзной Вы считаете проблему коррупции в России сегодня, в 2012 году, и как намерены с ней бороться? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: Returning to domestic policy, let us talk about corruption. In Russia this word is on everyone's lips. You raised this question too, but it was your predecessor who made it a priority. However, on leaving his post, Dmitry Medvedev called his achievements in this area modest. How serious do you consider the problem of corruption in Russia today, in 2012, and how do you intend to fight it? |
| В.Путин: Коррупция – это проблема для любой страны. Кстати говоря, она в любой стране присутствует: и в европейских странах, и в Соединённых Штатах. Там многие вещи легализованы. Лоббирование интересов частных компаний – это что, коррупция или нет? Но вроде как в рамках закона и вроде всё нормально. Но как посмотреть. Поэтому эта проблема существует, повторяю, во многих странах. Важен, конечно, объём и степень, уровень. Он у нас очень высокий. Это характерно практически для всех стран с переходной экономикой. Связано это с тем, что новые экономические модели нарождаются, не всё отрегулировано, государство не всё контролирует. С моралью связано. Особенно, знаете, переход от плановой экономики и социалистической морали к морали, основанной на вечных ценностях. Это довольно сложный процесс, особенно если этот процесс в рыночной экономике связан с быстрым обогащением отдельной группы или конкретных физических лиц. Это обществом воспринимается очень болезненно и негативно. Простой человек думает про себя: но если этим можно миллиарды заработать за пару лет, почему мне нельзя сделать то‑то и то‑то, даже если это не очень согласуется с проблемами морали и закона? Вот это всё как бы размывает фундаментальную базу борьбы с коррупцией. Это нелёгкий процесс. Но, безусловно, это важное направление нашей работы, и оно будет продолжено. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: Corruption is a problem for any country. By the way, it is present in any country: both in the European countries and in the United States. Many things there have been legalized. The lobbying of the interests of private companies — is that corruption or not? But it is supposedly within the law, and supposedly everything is normal. But it depends how one looks at it. So this problem exists, I repeat, in many countries. What matters, of course, is the volume and the degree, the level. With us it is very high. This is characteristic of practically all countries with a transitional economy. It is connected with the fact that new economic models are being born, not everything is regulated, the state does not control everything. It is connected with morality. Especially, you know, the transition from a planned economy and a socialist morality to a morality based on eternal values. This is a fairly complicated process, especially if this process in a market economy is connected with the rapid enrichment of a particular group or of particular natural persons. Society perceives this very painfully and negatively. An ordinary person thinks to himself: but if one can make billions at this in a couple of years, why may I not do such and such, even if it does not sit very well with the problems of morality and the law? All of this, as it were, erodes the fundamental base of the fight against corruption. It is not an easy process. But it is certainly an important direction of our work, and it will be continued. |
| К.Оуэн: Вы перечислили немало причин. Но с чего начинать? И когда можно ждать существенных результатов? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: You have listed quite a few reasons. But where should one begin? And when can substantial results be expected? |
| 13 Corruption | |
| В.Путин: Начинать нужно с того, чтобы добиться неприятия всем обществом этого явления. Ведь коррупция имеет как минимум двух участников – это взяткодатели и взяткополучатели, и часто так называемый взяткодатель ведёт себя активнее, чем взяткополучатель. Поэтому это и воспитательная работа, это улучшение деятельности правоохранительных органов, это создание такой нормативно-правовой базы, которая бы минимизировала возможность коррупционных проявлений. Это многоплановая работа, очень чувствительная и непростая. Мы по всем этим направлениям и будем действовать. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: One must begin by getting the whole of society to reject this phenomenon. Corruption has at least two participants — the bribe-givers and the bribe-takers — and often the so-called bribe-giver behaves more actively than the bribe-taker. So this is educational work too, it is improving the work of the law-enforcement bodies, it is creating a legal and regulatory base that would minimize the possibility of corrupt practices. This is many-sided work, very sensitive and not simple. We will act along all these lines. |
| К.Оуэн: Возможно, один из практических способов решения этой проблемы – новый законопроект, запрещающий государственным служащим открывать счета и покупать собственность за границей. Но разве он помешает делать это через подставных лиц? Как воспрепятствовать этому? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: Perhaps one of the practical ways of solving this problem is a new bill prohibiting civil servants from opening accounts and buying property abroad. But will it really prevent them from doing this through front persons? How can that be prevented? |
| В.Путин: Можно, конечно. Этот закон ещё не принят, он внесён в Государственную Думу. Это, конечно, определённые ограничения для граждан, которые занимаются государственной деятельностью, потому что сегодня в соответствии с нашим законодательством любой гражданин Российской Федерации имеет право иметь счёт в иностранном банке, иметь недвижимость. Но для чиновников, особенно чиновников высокого ранга, могут быть введены ограничения. Я здесь не вижу ничего необычного, особенно для наших реалий и нашей действительности. Но депутаты Государственной Думы должны будут сначала обосновать свою позицию, разработать этот закон в деталях. В целом я считаю, что он возможен и в какой‑то части, конечно, будет способствовать и борьбе с коррупцией. Потому что, если человек хочет посвятить себя действительно служению своей стране, своему народу, тогда он должен согласиться с тем, что хочет иметь счёт – пускай имеет счёт здесь, в России, в том числе в иностранном банке. Почему нет? У нас же много филиалов иностранных банков работает. Открывай счёт здесь. Зачем обязательно ехать в Австрию или в Соединённые Штаты и там открывать счёт? Если ты связываешь свою судьбу с этой страной, пожалуйста, будь любезен тогда, здесь изъявляй все свои интересы, в том числе и материального характера, и не прячь их куда‑нибудь под сукно. Китай становится серьёзным центром мировой экономики и мировой политики. Сейчас уровень российско-китайских отношений беспрецедентно высокий, очень доверительный и в политической сфере, и в области экономики. Мы в ближайшие годы, безусловно, достигнем планки оборота в 100 миллиардов долларов. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: Of course one can. This law has not yet been adopted; it has been introduced into the State Duma. These are, of course, certain restrictions for citizens who are engaged in state activity, because today, in accordance with our legislation, any citizen of the Russian Federation has the right to have an account in a foreign bank, to have real estate. But for officials, especially officials of high rank, restrictions may be introduced. I see nothing unusual here, especially for our realities and our actual conditions. But the deputies of the State Duma will first have to substantiate their position and work this law out in detail. On the whole I consider that it is possible and that in some part it will, of course, also contribute to the fight against corruption. Because if a person wants to devote himself truly to serving his country, his people, then he must agree that if he wants to have an account, let him have an account here, in Russia, including in a foreign bank. Why not? We have many branches of foreign banks working here. Open an account here. Why must one necessarily go to Austria or to the United States and open an account there? If you bind your fate to this country, then be so good as to declare all your interests here, including those of a material character, and do not hide them away somewhere under the cloth. China is becoming a serious center of the world economy and of world politics. Now the level of Russian-Chinese relations is unprecedentedly high, very trustful both in the political sphere and in the field of the economy. In the coming years we will without doubt reach the bar of a turnover of 100 billion dollars. |
| К.Оуэн: Хочу воспользоваться этой возможностью и задать Вам вопрос о деле Джулиана Ассанжа и его судебных разбирательствах с Великобританией и рядом других государств. Ассанж, как вам известно, наконец‑то получил политическое убежище в Эквадоре, которым он пока не может воспользоваться, поскольку фактически заперт на территории эквадорского посольства. Как Вы прокомментируете позицию Великобритании? Ведь в какой‑то момент речь шла о том, чтобы отозвать дипломатический иммунитет посольства, ворваться внутрь и захватить Ассанжа. Довольно странно: ведь Россия тоже хотела бы пообщаться с отдельными подозреваемыми, которые живут в Великобритании, где они получили надёжное убежище… |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: I want to use this opportunity and ask you a question about the case of Julian Assange and his legal proceedings with Britain and a number of other states. Assange, as you know, has at last received political asylum in Ecuador, which he cannot yet make use of, since he is in effect locked inside the territory of the Ecuadorian embassy. How would you comment on Britain's position? At a certain moment there was talk of withdrawing the embassy's diplomatic immunity, bursting in, and seizing Assange. It is rather strange: Russia too would like to speak with certain suspects who live in Britain, where they have received a secure asylum… |
| 14 Assange and Double Standards | |
| В.Путин: Это такой раздражающий момент, конечно, в наших отношениях с Великобританией, это факт. Я говорил не с действующими руководителями Правительства, но с прежними моими партнёрами и друзьями, как раз указывал им на то, что в Великобритании скрываются люди, у которых руки по локоть в крови, которые реально воевали здесь, на нашей территории, с оружием в руках, людей убивали. Знаете, какой ответ получил? Да, и я сказал: «Представь себе, что мы бы прятали здесь каких‑то боевиков, скажем, Ирландской республиканской армии, но не тех, которые сегодня договариваются с властями и ищут компромиссы, идут на эти компромиссы, – дай бог им здоровья, абсолютно правильные люди, здравые, но были и люди других убеждений, вот я говорю, – представь себе, что мы прятали бы таких людей у себя». Знаете, какой ответ получил? «Но ведь было же такое, когда Советский Союз таким людям помогал». Во‑первых, я сам бывший сотрудник разведки Советского Союза. Я не знаю, помогал или нет. Я просто никогда этим не занимался, даже если предположить, что такое было, но это было в условиях «холодной войны». Ситуация изменилась кардинально, и Советского Союза уже нет, есть новая Россия. Разве можно жить в плену старых фобий, в плену прежних представлений о характере международных отношений и отношений между нашими странами? Бог с ним, в конце концов. Нам всё время говорят о независимости судебной системы в Великобритании. Вот она принимает такое решение, и никто не может с этим ничего поделать. Что касается Ассанжа, его решили выдать. Что это такое? Конечно, это двойной стандарт, ясно. Я не берусь утверждать наверняка. Но, насколько мне известно, Эквадор обратился к властям Швеции за гарантиями того, что Ассанж не будет выдан из Швеции в США. Никаких гарантий до сих пор не получили. Это, конечно, наводит на мысль (как минимум наводит на мысль) о том, что это политическое дело. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: This is an irritating point, of course, in our relations with Great Britain; that is a fact. I spoke not with the acting leaders of the Government, but with my former partners and friends, and pointed out to them precisely that people are hiding in Great Britain whose hands are in blood up to the elbow, who really fought here, on our territory, with weapons in their hands, and killed people. Do you know what answer I received? Yes, and I said: "Imagine that we were hiding here some militants, say, of the Irish Republican Army, but not those who today negotiate with the authorities and seek compromises, go to these compromises — God grant them health, absolutely the right people, sensible ones — but there were also people of other convictions; that is what I mean — imagine that we were hiding such people at home." Do you know what answer I received? "But there was such a thing, when the Soviet Union helped such people." First, I myself am a former intelligence officer of the Soviet Union. I do not know whether it helped or not. I simply never occupied myself with this, even if one supposes that such a thing existed, but that was in the conditions of the Cold War. The situation has changed cardinally, and the Soviet Union is no longer there; there is a new Russia. Can one live captive to old phobias, captive to former notions of the character of international relations and of relations between our countries? God be with it, in the end. We are always being told about the independence of the judicial system in Great Britain. There it takes such a decision, and no one can do anything about it. As for Assange, they decided to extradite him. What is this? Of course it is a double standard; that is clear. I do not undertake to assert it for certain. But, so far as I know, Ecuador turned to the authorities of Sweden for guarantees that Assange would not be extradited from Sweden to the United States. No guarantees have been received to this day. This, of course, leads one to think (at a minimum leads one to think) that this is a political case. |
| К.Оуэн: Мы будем следить за ситуацией. Мы обсуждали с Вами отдельные проблемы современной России, и одна из таких давних проблем связана с наркоторговлей, поставками наркотиков из Афганистана. С тех пор как НАТО более десяти лет назад вторглось в Афганистан, объём нелегальной торговли возрос многократно, а что же будет, когда к 2014 году контингент будет выведен? Можно ли надеяться, что Вы решите проблему афганского наркотрафика в Россию? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: We will follow the situation. We discussed with you particular problems of present-day Russia, and one of these long-standing problems is connected with the drug trade, with supplies of drugs from Afghanistan. Since NATO invaded Afghanistan more than ten years ago, the volume of the illegal trade has grown many times over; and what will happen when, by 2014, the contingent is withdrawn? Can one hope that you will solve the problem of Afghan drug trafficking into Russia? |
| В.Путин: Пока не решается. Действительно, мы постоянно ведём диалог с нашими партнёрами, в том числе и с теми странами, военные контингенты которых присутствуют сейчас на территории Афганистана. Ситуация не улучшается, а, наоборот, деградирует. За прошлый год количество наркотиков, произведённых в Афганистане, увеличилось на 60 процентов. Кстати говоря, я уже не помню, боюсь ошибиться в абсолютных цифрах, но процентов 90, наверное, героина на рынке Великобритании афганского происхождения. Это наша общая беда и общая угроза. Для России это очень серьёзная угроза нашей национальной безопасности, без всякого преувеличения. У нас из всего афганского наркотрафика где‑то свыше 20 процентов остаётся на территории России. 70 тонн героина в прошлом году и примерно 56 тонн опия – это огромные цифры, безусловно, составляющие угрозу нашей национальной безопасности. Уточните, пожалуйста, для наших телезрителей: почему эта проблема усугубилась после вступления войск НАТО в Афганистан? Есть тут какая‑то связь? Почему так случилось? За прошлый год количество наркотиков, произведённых в Афганистане, увеличилось на 60 процентов. Это наша общая беда и общая угроза. Для России это очень серьёзная угроза национальной безопасности, без всякого преувеличения. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: It is not being solved for now. Indeed, we constantly conduct a dialogue with our partners, including with those countries whose military contingents are now present on the territory of Afghanistan. The situation is not improving; on the contrary, it is degrading. Over the past year the quantity of drugs produced in Afghanistan increased by 60 percent. By the way, I no longer remember; I am afraid of being wrong in the absolute figures, but something like 90 percent, probably, of the heroin on the British market is of Afghan origin. This is our common misfortune and our common threat. For Russia this is a very serious threat to our national security, without any exaggeration. Of the whole Afghan drug traffic, somewhere over 20 percent remains on the territory of Russia. 70 tons of heroin last year and roughly 56 tons of opium — these are enormous figures, certainly, constituting a threat to our national security. Please clarify for our television viewers: why did this problem grow worse after NATO troops entered Afghanistan? Is there some connection here? Why did it happen so? Over the past year the quantity of drugs produced in Afghanistan increased by 60 percent. This is our common misfortune and our common threat. For Russia this is a very serious threat to national security, without any exaggeration. |
| Matching Russian passage has not been identified | OWEN: Final thought from you, Mr President. While you’ll be talking money and finances at the forthcoming APEC summit that you are going to. Looking at the world economy from where you are, generally. Do you think we are heading for a second global slump and if we do, is Russia as well prepared to bat it off as it did last time? It did pretty well last time but is it as well prepared this time? |
| 15 Afghan Drug Trafficking | |
| В.Путин: Связь простая. Сейчас я не хочу говорить ни о каких криминальных проявлениях, но ни одна из стран, которые присутствуют военными контингентами на территории Афганистана, не хочет усугублять своего положения борьбой с наркотиками, потому что наркотики кормят Афганистан – 9 процентов ВВП страны складываются из торговли наркотиками. Для того чтобы 9 процентов заместить, надо заплатить, а платить никто не хочет. А просто говорить о том, что мы сейчас заместим доходы, получаемые от продажи наркотиков, другими доходами, разговоров недостаточно. Нужна реальная экономическая политика и финансовая поддержка. К этому, похоже, никто не готов. И никто не хочет усугублять своего положения в этой связи борьбой с наркотиками, потому что оставить людей голодать без всяких этих наркотических продаж – это значит нажить себе на территории страны дополнительное количество врагов, людей, которые будут бороться с теми, кто борется с наркотиками. Вот и всё. Конечно, наркотики связаны очень тесно с терроризмом, с организованной преступностью, но это практически ведь все знают, знают, что часть доходов от наркотиков идёт на поддержание террористической деятельности. Но даже понимание этого обстоятельства и того, что наркотики, производимые в Афганистане, захлёстывают Европу, всё‑таки не побуждает наших партнёров к активной работе по этому направлению. Прискорбно это очень. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: The connection is simple. I do not want to speak now of any criminal manifestations, but none of the countries that are present with military contingents on the territory of Afghanistan wants to worsen its position by fighting drugs, because drugs feed Afghanistan — 9 percent of the country's GDP is made up of the drug trade. In order to replace 9 percent, one has to pay, and no one wants to pay. And simply to say that we will now replace the income received from selling drugs with other income — talk is not enough. A real economic policy and financial support are needed. No one, it seems, is ready for this. And no one wants to worsen his position in this connection by fighting drugs, because to leave people to go hungry without all these narcotics sales means acquiring on the territory of the country an additional quantity of enemies, people who will fight those who fight drugs. That is all. Of course drugs are very closely connected with terrorism, with organized crime, but practically everyone knows this, knows that part of the income from drugs goes to sustaining terrorist activity. But even an understanding of this circumstance, and of the fact that the drugs produced in Afghanistan are flooding Europe, still does not move our partners to active work in this direction. This is very regrettable. |
| К.Оуэн: И последний момент, господин Президент. На саммите АТЭС Вы будете обсуждать финансовые и денежные вопросы, рассматривать ситуацию в мировой экономике в целом. Как Вы полагаете, ждёт ли нас вторая волна мирового кризиса? А если да, справится ли Россия в этот раз, как и в прошлый, достаточно ли вы хорошо подготовлены? |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: And one last point, Mr. President. At the APEC summit you will discuss financial and monetary questions and consider the situation in the world economy as a whole. Do you think a second wave of the world crisis awaits us? And if so, will Russia cope this time as it did last time; are you sufficiently well prepared? |
| 16 Preparedness for a Second Economic Crisis | |
| В.Путин: Я думаю, что сейчас мы ещё лучше подготовлены, потому что мы прошли предыдущую волну кризиса и у нас есть уже понимание, что и как нужно делать, есть инструменты борьбы с кризисом. Более того, ещё в прошлом году я дал поручение Правительству, ещё прошлому составу Правительства, эти инструменты, имеющиеся у нас и испробованные, совершенствовать, подготовить проекты законодательных актов, поправить нормативную базу. Мы попросили у парламента, и парламент согласился, выделил определённую сумму денег, 200 миллиардов в резервный фонд для Правительства. Так что в целом у нас инструменты есть. У нас, как вы знаете, и рост экономики приличный был, самый высокий в мире среди крупных экономик после Китая и Индии – 4,2 процента. Средний рост экономики в Европе, в еврозоне был 3,9 процента, у нас был 4,2. Кстати говоря, в еврозоне прогнозируется и Международным валютным фондом, и Всемирным банком отрицательный рост, минус 0,3 процента в следующем году. В этом году мы всё‑таки планируем плюс, причём плюс от 4 до 5 процентов. Вот это самое главное условие, которое говорит нам о том, что в целом Россия если и столкнётся с проблемами, то у неё будет достаточно инструментов для борьбы с этими вызовами и угрозами. Растут наши золотовалютные резервы, они практически восстановились до докризисного уровня. Мы третья в мире страна по объёму золотовалютных резервов после Китая и Японии, у нас 500 с лишним миллиардов долларов золотовалютных резервов. Одновременно восстанавливаются и резервы Правительства. У нас два резервных фонда Правительства: Фонд национального благосостояния, где 80 миллиардов долларов, в пересчёте на доллары, и где‑то 60 миллиардов долларов – Резервный фонд, из которого мы финансируем дефицит бюджета, если он возникает. Но дефицита у нас нет. У нас с профицитом, с небольшим, но с профицитом, свёрстан бюджет прошлого года. У нас минимальный уровень безработицы. Если в еврозоне в среднем 11,2 процента, а в таких странах, как Испания, – 25–26, среди молодёжи – уже под 70 процентов, у нас ниже докризисного уровня – 5,1 процента уровень безработицы. Мы заинтересованы в том, чтобы зона евро сохранилась, чтобы экономика наших основных партнёров заработала, задышала, чтобы локомотивы европейской экономики были в хорошем состоянии. Но это всё нас совершенно не расслабляет, мы прекрасно понимаем, что самое каверзное во всех этих процессах в мировой экономике в том, что она непредсказуемо развивается, и где появятся основные сложности и основные угрозы, предсказать почти невозможно. Поэтому мы смотрим внимательно за тем, что происходит в соседних странах, в наших странах-партнёрах. Мы желаем успеха, мы стараемся помочь искренне, по‑партнёрски. Потому что любой сбой в экономике, скажем, еврозоны больно, болезненно отражается на нашей экономике. Это основные рынки сбыта наших товаров. Если они сокращаются, у нас сразу производство сокращается, падает. Поэтому мы заинтересованы в том, чтобы зона евро сохранилась, чтобы экономика наших основных партнёров заработала, задышала, чтобы локомотивы европейской экономики (Федеративная Республика Германия, Франция, Великобритания) были в хорошем состоянии. Это всегда находится в поле нашего зрения и внимания. Вот этому будет посвящена, разумеется, в первую очередь дискуссия на саммите АТЭС во Владивостоке. |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: I think that now we are prepared still better, because we have gone through the previous wave of the crisis and we already have an understanding of what needs to be done and how; there are instruments for fighting the crisis. Moreover, back last year I instructed the Government, the previous composition of the Government, to improve these instruments that we have and that have been tried, to prepare drafts of legislative acts, to correct the normative base. We asked parliament, and parliament agreed, and allocated a definite sum of money, 200 billion, to a reserve fund for the Government. So on the whole we have the instruments. We also, as you know, had decent economic growth, the highest in the world among the large economies after China and India — 4.2 percent. Average economic growth in Europe, in the eurozone, was 3.9 percent; ours was 4.2. By the way, in the eurozone both the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank forecast negative growth, minus 0.3 percent next year. This year we are all the same planning a plus, and a plus of from 4 to 5 percent. This is the most important condition, which tells us that on the whole, if Russia does come up against problems, it will have enough instruments to fight these challenges and threats. Our gold and currency reserves are growing; they have practically recovered to the pre-crisis level. We are the third country in the world by the volume of gold and currency reserves after China and Japan; we have 500-plus billion dollars of gold and currency reserves. At the same time the Government's reserves are recovering too. We have two reserve funds of the Government: the National Wealth Fund, where there are 80 billion dollars, in conversion to dollars, and somewhere around 60 billion dollars — the Reserve Fund, from which we finance the budget deficit if it arises. But we have no deficit. We have a surplus, a small one, but a surplus; last year's budget was drawn up with a surplus. We have a minimal level of unemployment. If in the eurozone it is 11.2 percent on average, and in countries such as Spain 25–26, and among young people already under 70 percent, with us it is below the pre-crisis level — a 5.1 percent level of unemployment. We are interested in the eurozone being preserved, in the economy of our main partners starting to work, to breathe, in the locomotives of the European economy being in good condition. But all this does not relax us at all; we understand perfectly well that the most insidious thing in all these processes in the world economy is that it develops unpredictably, and where the main difficulties and the main threats will appear is almost impossible to predict. So we watch attentively what is happening in neighboring countries, in our partner countries. We wish them success; we try to help sincerely, in a partner-like way. Because any failure in the economy, say, of the eurozone is reflected painfully, distressingly, on our economy. These are the main markets for our goods. If they shrink, our production immediately shrinks and falls. So we are interested in the eurozone being preserved, in the economy of our main partners starting to work, to breathe, in the locomotives of the European economy (the Federal Republic of Germany, France, Great Britain) being in good condition. This is always in the field of our vision and attention. The discussion at the APEC summit in Vladivostok will of course be devoted to this in the first place. |
| К.Оуэн: Желаю Вам всего самого наилучшего. С нами был Президент России Владимир Путин. Спасибо Вам большое. |
Full house translation — pending review К.Оуэн: I wish you all the very best. President of Russia Vladimir Putin was with us. Thank you very much. |
| В.Путин: Спасибо Вам большое. Темы АТЭС Внешняя политика |
Full house translation — pending review В.Путин: Thank you very much. APEC topics Foreign policy |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: You know, I attended the G20 meeting in Mexico just recently. As a rule, such meetings are pre-arranged and pre-discussed by our aides and ministers and high-ranking experts, and still there are certain issues that eventually come into focus for the heads of states that are attending. And in fact, that’s how it was in Mexico. I was very interested to follow discussions and look at conflicting opinions, and I participated in some of those discussions. I think the coming forum will see just as many debates. But it’s only through this kind of meticulous, hard work – year after year and quarter after quarter, if not day by day, if you excuse my officialese – that we can eventually arrive at acceptable solutions on some sensitive issues such as, say, liberalising trade, since this is an issue that affects millions of people. We are planning to focus primarily on economic challenges, transport, global food security and the task of liberalising the global economy. The past year has seen a dramatic increase in the number of people affected by starvation. This is the kind of issue that will be the focus of our attention, along with a number of other challenges that are highly sensitive and significant for millions of people. You know the issues debated within the framework of the World Trade Organisation, and the coming APEC summit is so immensely important for us, partly because Russia in now a full member of the WTO. We have also established a Customs Union and a Common Economic Space in the post-Soviet territory jointly with Belarus and Kazakhstan. And dialogue is very important for us, so that we could explain to our partners and help them realise how this kind of association in the post-Soviet area could be beneficial and helpful for purposes of our cooperation with them. Especially since the vehicles I’ve mentioned have been established based on WTO principles. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Okay, thanks for explaining that. We're going to come back to APEC a little bit later if we may, but you touched on another big subject in headlines, the horrendous events that have been unfolding in Syria over the last 18 months now. Russia's position has been steadfast all the way along the line. Here you've said there should be no foreign intervention and it should be the Syrian people who do the deciding and it should be done through diplomacy. However, that's a great idea, but day in day out innocent lives are being lost on both sides. Is it time for something more than talking? Should Russia be reassessing its position maybe now? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: How come Russia is the only one who’s expected to revise its stance? Don’t you think our counterparts in negotiations ought to revise theirs as well? Because if we look back at the events in the past few years, we’ll see that quite a few initiatives of our counterparts have not played out the way they were intended to. Take the examples of the numerous countries ridden with escalating internal conflicts. The US and then its allies went into Afghanistan, and now they’re all looking forward to getting out of there. If there’s anything on the table, it’s the issue of assisting them in withdrawing their troops and hardware from Afghanistan through our transit routes. Now, are you sure that country has been stabilised for decades to come? So far, no one is confident about it. And look at what’s going on in Arab countries. There have been notable developments in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Yemen. Would you say that order and prosperity have been totally ensured for these nations? And what’s going on in Iraq? In Libya, there are in fact armed clashes still raging among the country’s various tribes. I won’t even mention the way the country had its regime changed: this is a separate topic. What concerns us, and I want to emphasize this once again, is the current hostilities in Syria. But at the same time, we are just as concerned about the possible consequences of certain decisions, should they be taken. In our opinion, the most important task today is ending the violence. We must urge all the warring parties, including the government and the so-called rebels, the armed opposition, to sit down at the negotiating table and decide on a future that would guarantee security for all of the stakeholders within Syria. Only then should they get down to any practical measures regarding the country’s future system of governance. We realise that this country needs a change, but this doesn’t mean that change should come with bloodshed. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Okay, well, given the facts regarding Syria that you see on the table now, what is the next step? What do you realistically think is going to happen next? The APEC summit is so immensely important for us, partly because Russia in now a full member of the WTO. We have also established a Customs Union and a Common Economic Space in the post-Soviet territory jointly with Belarus and Kazakhstan. And dialogue is very important for us, so that our partners realise that this kind of association in the post-Soviet area could be beneficial. |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: We told our partners we would like to sit down together at the negotiating table in Geneva. And when we did, together we charted a roadmap for further action that would help bring peace to Syria and channel the developments into a more constructive path. We received almost unanimous support and shared the results of the talks with the Syrian government. But then the rebels actually refused to recognise those decisions; and many of the negotiating parties have also quietly backed down. I believe that the first thing to do is to finally stop shipping arms into the warzone. We should stop trying to impose unacceptable solutions on either side, because it is a dead-end. That’s what we should do. It is that simple. Luckily, we generally enjoy friendly relations with the Arab world, but we would like to stay away from sectarian conflicts in Islam, or interfere in a showdown involving the Sunnis, the Shia, the Alawis and so on. We treat everyone with equal respect. We also get on well with Saudi Arabia and other countries; I have cultivated a warm personal relationship with the guardian of two Islamic shrines. The only underlying motive behind our stance is the desire to create a favourable environment for the situation to develop positively in years to come. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: What are your thoughts about the United Nations and the way the United Nations has reacted particularly in Syria. There's been criticism that it's failed to deliver a unified front if you like and has become more of a figurehead organisation. Do you share that view? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: Quite the contrary, I would say. My take on the issue is the absolute opposite of what you have just said. If the United Nations and the Security Council had indeed turned into a mere rubberstamping tool for any one of the member states, it would have ceased to exist, just like the League of Nations has. But the reality is that the Security Council and the UN are meant to be a tool for compromise. Seeking to achieve it is a long and complex process, but only this hard and tedious work can yield us fruit. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Understood. Mr President, another question I'd like to ask you – a number of Western and Arab nations have been covertly supporting the FSA, the Free Syrian Army – indeed, some of them are doing it openly now. Of course the catch here is that the FSA is suspected of hiring known Al-Qaeda fighters amongst their ranks. So the twist in this tale is that a lot of those countries are actually sponsoring terrorism, if you like, in Syria, countries that have suffered from terrible terrorism themselves. Is that a fair assessment? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: You know, whenever someone aspires to attain a much-desired end, any means will do. As a rule, they will try and do that by hook or by crook – and hardly ever think of the consequences that will follow. That was the case during the Afghan war after the Soviet Union in 1979 sent its troops to Afghanistan. At that time, our current partners supported a rebel movement there and basically gave rise to Al-Qaeda, a United States pet project that later targeted its creator. Today some people want to use militants from Al-Qaeda or some other organisations with equally radical views to accomplish their goals in Syria. This policy is dangerous and very short-sighted. But in that case, one should unlock Guantanamo, arm all of its inmates and bring them to Syria to do the fighting – it's practically the same kind of people. But bear in mind that one day these people will get back at their patrons and eventually end up in a new prison, one that will very much resemble the camp off the Cuban shore. I would like to emphasize that this policy is very short-sighted and is fraught with dire consequences. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: I'd like to broaden that a little bit now, a little bit wider from Syria. You touched upon Syria. Syria is in the middle of a civil war, we're seeing conflicts in Bahrain and in Saudi Arabia. Okay, things are a bit calmer in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia, you mentioned it just now. But standing back from it overall, all the troubles that we've seen in the Middle East, all the turmoil there – has it been at all for the good or for the bad, where does it put that region now? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: You know, we can discuss this into the small hours and still run out of time. For me, it’s a clear fact that these events are historically logical and follow from these states’ development. The leaders of these countries have obviously overlooked the need for change and missed the ongoing trends at home and abroad, so they failed to produce the reforms which would have saved the day in due time. All these events simply logically stem from this background. Whether this is a blessing or a curse with many negative implications, is now too early to say. The most important task today is ending the violence [in Syria], urging all the warring parties to sit down at the negotiating table and decide on a future that would guarantee security for all of the stakeholders within Syria. Only then should they get down to any practical measures regarding the country’s future system of governance. In any case, the lack of a civilised approach, the high level of violence has so far stood in the way of building any sustainable political structures which would help solve economic and social problems in societies hit by those events. This is what causes a lot of concern over the future situation, because the people in these countries, who have had enough of their previous regimes, clearly expect the new governments to begin with tackling their social and economic problems in a competent way. But with no political stability, these problems cannot be solved. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Let's turn now to the United States, the upcoming election there, which we are all looking forward to very much. Of course, now the re-set button with Russia was firmly pushed by Barack Obama Obama Barack over the last 4 years, but it saw its ups and downs, and there's still that missile defence shield that's a headache for Russia in the East of Europe. If President Obama does win a second term, what's going to define the next chapter of Russia and America's relations and is it chapter you can do business with? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: I believe that over the last four years President Obama and President Medvedev have made a lot of progress on the way to strengthening Russian-US relations. We have signed the new START treaty. Backed by the US, Russia has become a full-fledged member of the World Trade Organisation. There have been more reasons to be optimistic about our bilateral relations: our strengthened cooperation in combating terrorism and organised crime, in the non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and others. In other words, we have accumulated quite a lot of positive experience. Nevertheless, the issue you mentioned – the US missile defence system – is surely one of the key issues on today’s agenda because it involves Russia’s vital interests. Experts understand that a unilateral solution will not benefit stability in the world. In essence, the ambition is to upset the strategic balance, which is a very dangerous thing to do, as any involved party will always strive to maintain its defence capability, and the entire thing could simply trigger off an arms race. Is it possible to find a solution to the problem, if current President Obama is re-elected for a second term? Theoretically, yes. But this isn’t just about President Obama. For all I know, his desire to work out a solution is quite sincere. I met him recently on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Los Cabos, Mexico where we had a chance to talk. And though we talked mostly about Syria, I could still feel the stance of my counterpart. My feeling is that he is a very honest man and that he sincerely wants to make many good changes. But can he do it, will they let him do it? I mean that there is also the military lobby, and the Department of State, which is quite conservative. By the way it is fairly similar to Russia’s Foreign Ministry. They are run by a number of professional clans who have been working there for decades. The thing is that in order to solve the missile defence issue, we both need to accept as an axiom that ‘yes, we are reliable partners and allies for each other’. Let’s imagine for a second we have the solution – that means that from now on we jointly do missile threat assessments and control this defence system together. This is a highly sensitive area of national defence. I am not sure that our partners are ready for this kind of cooperation. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Is there anything that Russia can do to try and meet halfway, to give a better ground? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: We did what we could do. We said, let’s do it together. Our partners are so far refusing to go along. What else can we do? We can maintain the dialogue. That’s exactly what we will be doing, but naturally, as our American partners proceed with developing their own missile defence we shall have to think of how we can defend ourselves and preserve the strategic balance. By the way, America’s European allies (who also happen to be Russia’s partners) have nothing to do with it. I believe you as a European must understand it. This is a purely American missile defence system, and a strategic one at that, with its outposts deployed along the European borders. You see, Europe, just like Russia, is not allowed to take part in either assessing missile threats or controlling the system. Our original proposal was to develop it as a three-party solution, but our partners have not yet come to agree to it. The Security Council and the UN are meant to be a tool for compromise. It is a long and complex process, but only this hard and tedious work can yield us fruit. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Okay. So, we think you can work with Barack Obama if he gets in. What about if Mitt Romney gets in? Look, I've got some quotes here from just a month or two ago. This is the man that if he makes it to the White House said, ”Russia is without question our number one geopolitical foe. They fight every cause for the world's worst“ and he went on to say ”Russia is not a friendly character on the world stage.“ Could you work with him, Sir? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: Yes, we can. We'll work with whichever president gets elected by the American people. But our effort will only be as efficient as our partners will want it to be. As for Mr Romney’s position, we understand that this is to a certain extent motivated by the election race and election rhetoric, but I also think that he was obviously wrong, because such behaviuor on the international arena is the same as using nationalism and segregation as tools of US domestic policy. It has the same effect on the international arena when a politician, a person who aspires to lead a nation, especially a super-power like the US, proclaims someone to be an enemy. And by the way, this brings something else to mind. When we talk about the missile defence system, our American partners keep telling us, “This is not directed against you”. But what happens if Mr Romney, who believes us to be America’s number one foe, gets elected as president of the United States? In that case, the system will definitely be directed against Russia as its infrastructure looks to be configured exactly for this purpose. And you also have to think about its strategic character, it’s built not for a year or even a decade, and the chances that a man with Romney’s views could come to power are quite high. So, what are we supposed to do to ensure our security? Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: I’d like to talk about the latest developments in the Magnitsky case for a moment now. Both the US and Britain, Britain most recently, are working on this list of Russian officials, Russian citizens that they say are responsible for his death. He was a high-ranking finance advisor who died in a Russian jail, I’ll just explain for our viewers. Why is there still such a perception abroad that this wasn’t dealt with here in Russia, that the people responsible hadn’t been dealt with properly. Why does this keep rumbling on? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: You see, there are people who need an enemy, they are looking for an opponent to fight against. Do you know how many people die while in prison in those countries which have condemned Russia? The numbers are huge! Look at the US that came up with the so-called Magnitsky list. As you know, there is no death penalty in Russia while the US still keeps it on the books. Anyone, including women, can be executed. At the same time, all civilised societies know that judicial errors can occur in capital punishment cases, even when people plead guilty. It turns out later on that the convict did not commit the crime. That’s one thing. More importantly, I think it’s only God that has power over life and death. But I don’t want to go too much into it right now – there’s a lot of philosophy in it. With that in mind, we could have come up with our own black list, and more than one, of the people who use the death penalty in other countries. However, we choose not to do it. Over the last four years a lot of progress has been achieved on the way to strengthening Russian-US relations. We have signed the new START treaty. Backed by the US, Russia has become a full-fledged member of the World Trade Organisation. There have been more reasons to be optimistic about our bilateral relations. As for Mr Magnitsky, it is certainly a great tragedy that he died in prison. And there certainly must be a thorough investigation. If it is someone’s fault, they must be punished. But what I want to emphasise is that there is absolutely no political context to this case. It is a tragedy, but it only has to do with crime and legal procedure, not politics. No more than that. Still, someone’s looking to spoil relations with Russia. They have banned some of Russian officials that are allegedly involved in the death of Mr Magnitsky from entering their country. Of course, I do regret his death and offer my condolences to his family. But what should Russia do in such cases? Take appropriate steps and put together a similar list of the officials of the country that introduces such measures against Russia. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: And to make it perfectly clear, this case won’t be re-examined by Russia? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: Which case? What needs to be re-tried? We must only find out whether someone’s guilty of his death or not. And if someone’s guilty and responsible for the death in some way, that person should be held accountable for that. That’s it. Again, there is no politics behind it. It’s the job of the law enforcement professionals to look into it. Of course, the Russian authorities are going to do that. The General Prosecutor’s Office is working on it now. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Okay, and now I’d like to talk about the trial and jailing of Pussy Riot, that punk group band. There’s been much criticism that the sentence handed down was too strong, too much and that the whole case was too big a deal off and that it actually back-fired and has brought more people to their cause with the publicity. With hindsight, always a beautiful thing, but with hindsight do you think the case could have been handled differently? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: You’ve been working in Russia for a while now and maybe know some Russian. Could you please translate the name of the band into Russian? Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Pussy Riot, the punk band. I don’t know what you would call them in Russian, Sir, but maybe you could tell me! |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: Can you translate the first word into Russian? Or maybe it would sound too obscene? Yes, I think you wouldn’t do it because it sounds too obscene, even in English. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: I actually thought it was referring to a cat, but I’m getting your point here. Do you think the case was handled wrongly in any way, could some lesson have been learned? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: I know you understand it perfectly well, you don’t need to pretend you don’t get it. It’s just because these people made all of you say their band’s name out loud too many times. It’s obscene – but forget it. Here’s what I would like to say. I have always felt that punishment should be proportionate to the gravity of the offence. I am not in a position now and would not like, anyway, to comment on the decision of a Russian court, but I would rather talk about the moral side of the story. As for Mr Magnitsky, it is certainly a great tragedy that he died in prison. And there certainly must be a thorough investigation. If it is someone’s fault, they must be punished. First, in case you never heard of it, a couple of years ago one of the band’s members put up three effigies in one of Moscow’s big supermarkets, with a sign saying that Jews, gays and migrant workers should be driven out of Moscow. I think local authorities should have looked into their activities right from that moment. After that, they staged an orgy in a public place. Of course, people are allowed to do whatever they want to do, as long as it’s legal, but not in a public place. Again, the authorities should have looked into that. Then they uploaded the video of that orgy on the Internet. You know some fans of group sex say it’s better than one-on-one because, like in any teamwork, you don’t need to hit the ball all the time. Again, it’s okay if you do what you like privately, but I wouldn’t be that certain about uploading your acts on the Internet. It could be the subject of legal assessment, too. Then they got inside Yelokhovo Cathedral, here in Moscow, and caused mayhem there, and then they went to another cathedral and caused mayhem there, too. You know, Russians still have painful memories of the early years of Soviet rule, when thousands of Orthodox priests and the clergy of other religions were persecuted. Soviet authorities brutally repressed the clergy. Many churches were destroyed. The attacks had a devastating effect on all our traditional religions. And so in general I think the state has to protect the feelings of believers. I will not comment on whether the verdict is well-grounded and the sentence proportionate to the gravity of the offence. These girls have lawyers who must defend their interests in court. They have the right to file an appeal and demand a new hearing. But it’s up to them, it’s just a legal issue. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Is it realistic at all they will get some sort of early release? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: I don’t know whether their lawyers have filed an appeal or not. I don’t follow the case. If they did, a higher court is empowered to take any decision. To be honest, I try to stay as far away from the case as possible. I know the details but I do not want to get into it. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: There’s concern here and abroad that Russia has been suffering a clamp down on the opposition since you returned as President. There’s tighter defamation law, upping the fines for defamation, internet censorship laws brought into protect children. All these introduced under your watch. What’s the balance do you think between a healthy opposition and maintaining law and order? What’s your view? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: So, is it true then that other countries don’t have laws that ban child pornography, including that on the Internet? Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Indeed, they do. |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: So they do? Well, we didn’t, until recently. And if we began to protect our society and our children from these offences… Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Maybe, it was the timing of the introduction? It may have seemed a bit heavy-handed as you came back to power again. Russians still have painful memories of the early years of Soviet rule, when thousands of Orthodox priests and the clergy of other religions were persecuted. Soviet authorities brutally repressed the clergy. Many churches were destroyed. The attacks had a devastating effect on all our traditional religions. And so in general I think the state has to protect the feelings of believers. |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: You know, I try not to think about it. I just do what I think is right for this country and for its people. And that’s how I will work in the future. Of course, I am aware of how my steps resonate in the world, but this response cannot dictate my policies. Any steps we take are in the interests of the Russian people, and our children need this kind of protection. No-one is going to use this as a tool to restrict the Internet or the freedom of speech on the Internet, but we have the right to protect our children. Talking of what some call a crackdown… We have to get the definition of this word right first. What is a crackdown? As we see it, it’s only a simple rule that everyone, including the opposition, must comply with Russian law, and this rule will be consistently enforced. You might also remember the mass riots that shocked the UK some two years ago. A lot of people were injured and lots of businesses damaged. Do we really need to stand idly by until it turns into a mess and then spend a year tracking down and locking them up? I think it’s best not to let things go this far. That’s my first point. Now, to my second point. Let me now get down to the hard facts. You must know that a year ago I backed the reform that will see Russian governors elected, and not appointed, as previously, through a secret ballot. But I also made the next step. After I stepped into office, I introduced a new bill on the elections to the Upper Chamber of the Russian Parliament. These specific steps will pave the way for a more democratic Russia, and it’s true both for its people and its state. There have been other proposals initiated too, including changes in the law-making process. The State Duma is now considering the possibility of using public initiatives on major national issues submitted via the Internet as a source of new legislation. If a draft bill is supported by 100,000 web votes, it will then be discussed in the State Duma. Right now we are looking into how to put this idea into practice. There are other major proposals as well. We seek to make our society more advanced and more democratic and we intend to be consistent in following this path. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: We started off our talk by talking about the forthcoming APEC summit which you are off to very shortly. When you are there you’ll be meeting with Chinese President Hu Jintao Hu Jintao . You won’t be meeting Barak Obama because he’s not there, Hilary Clinton Clinton Hillary will be. Is that a sign of how he regards APEC? We know he’s busy but is it a sign of how he regards it? And is it a sign that China is increasingly becoming a bigger geopolitical and commercial partner for you? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: China is indeed becoming a major hub of world economy and politics. This is part of the global trend, with new centres emerging on the political and economic landscape. This is an obvious fact for everyone; the question is how fast this change is happening. China has taken up this new leading role not only in Russia’s eyes, but also in the eyes of the whole world. What makes us rather special, however, is that Russia and China are neighbours, and our special relations took thousands of years to evolve to where we are now. We have been through times of sunshine which were very beneficial for both countries. We have also been through periods of gloom and conflict. Presently, the Russian-Chinese relations are at an unprecedented high level, and we have a lot of mutual trust both in politics and economy. Over the coming years we are bound to achieve a $100 billion turnover. To put this in perspective, currently Europe makes up 51% of Russia’s foreign trade, which amounts to over $200 billion. That will be a serious push forward. Our American partners told us long ago that Barack Obama will not attend the summit. The reason is the election race in the US, we think it’s okay. The US will still be represented at a high level. So, yes, we’ve known that for several months now, and we fully understand the reasons. Anyway, this will be a great summit, with top officials coming from twenty countries – heads of states and governments. Of course, it’s a pity that the US president cannot come this time. I think if he really had the opportunity, he would not miss it, because it’s a good event for the US to talk not only with us but also with other partners in the Asia-Pacific region. Anyway, we did meet with Barack Obama earlier, as I said, in Mexico, and had a chance to discuss our bilateral ties and exchange opinions on the world’s major issues. So we do continue our dialogue. We seek to make our society more advanced and more democratic and we intend to be consistent in following this path. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Domestically again, I’d like to talk about corruption. It’s a word that comes up time and time again here in Russia. You have talked about it before but most notably the previous president was really putting it at the top of his list of things to sort out. However when Dmitry Medvedev left office as president he reported modest success at tackling it. How serious a problem do you think corruption is here in Russia in 2012 and what are you going to do about it? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: Corruption is a problem for any country. And by the way you will find it in any country, be it in Europe or in the United States. They have legalised many things. Let’s take the lobby for private corporations – what is it, is it corruption or not? It’s legalised and so formally is okay, within the law. But that depends on how you look at it. Therefore I will repeat that this problem is an issue for many countries. More important is the level and scope of corruption. In our case, they are quite high. But this is typical of transition economies. The reason is that while new economic models are evolving many things are not yet adjusted or aligned, and the state is not always in control. There are also value issues, especially when we move from the socialist mindset and planned economy values to universal values. This is a complicated process, especially if the new market development brings about rapid acquisition of wealth to some particular circles or group of people. This is something that is perceived painfully and with reprehension. The average person then starts thinking: if it is okay for those people to earn billions in a couple of years, why is it not okay for me to do this or that even if it isn’t exactly in sync with the law and moral values? All this undermines the very foundation of the campaign against corruption. This is a very difficult process, but undoubtedly this is an essential part of our agenda, and we shall continue our efforts in this area. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: There is a big list of causes you have cited. Where do you begin to go about tackling it, and when is there going to be some sort of sea change? When will it get better if you like? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: What we need to start with is to make our entire society detest the very notion of corruption. Corruption is a two-way process, with two sides to it, the bribe-giver and the bribe-taker, and it often happens that bribe-givers are even more active than the bribe-takers. Therefore, it is a matter of boosting morale; it is also a matter of making our law enforcement agencies more efficient and developing a legal framework that would minimise the opportunities for corruption. This is a comprehensive task, which is very sensitive and difficult. And we shall work on every aspect of it. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: One of the practical ways you are going about it is the new draft law that prevents government officials from opening bank accounts and holding property abroad. I don’t know what you think about that law, but isn’t it possible for someone to use someone else’s account. How are you going to enforce it? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: Of course, you could. This bill has not been passed yet, it’s being reviewed by the State Duma. This naturally implies certain limitations for officials, because our current legislation allows any Russian citizen to have a foreign bank account or property. Yet, limitations may be introduced for some officials, especially for high-level officials. I don’t see anything extraordinary about this, especially in view of today’s life and situation. But the State Duma will have to provide rationale for their proposal and develop it into a detailed draft law. Overall, I believe this law could work and to a certain extent would help in the fight against corruption. Of course it will, because those people who are willing to commit themselves to serving their country and their people should be willing to agree to such terms that if they want to have a bank account, it’ll have to be a Russian bank account, or a Russian branch of a foreign bank. Why not? Many foreign banks have branches in Russia. One can keep their accounts here. Why go to Austria or the United States to open an account? If it is your decision to serve this country, be so kind as to keep your interests here, including financial interests, do not hide your money anywhere. China is indeed becoming a major hub of world economy and politics. Presently, the Russian-Chinese relations are at an unprecedented high level, and we have a lot of mutual trust both in politics and economy. Over the coming years we are bound to achieve a $100 billion turnover. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: While we’ve got you with us Sir, I’d like to get your thoughts on the ongoing Julian Assange case in Britain, his legal battle with Britain and with a number of other countries as well but equally his attempts to get asylum in Ecuador which he’s now got and he’s holed-up in the Ecuadorean embassy. What’s your opinion on Britain’s stance, at one point they were talking about revoking the embassies diplomatic immunity so they could actually go in and get him. That sounds a bit odd when you think that Russia has a number of suspects it would like to talk to there, it’s a kind of topsy-turvy situation, but they are given safe harbour in Britain. |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: This certainly is an unsettling factor in our relations with the UK. I used to tell my previous counterparts and friends in the British government – not the ones holding office at the moment – that Britain happens to be harbouring certain individuals who have blood on their hands from having waged a real war on Russian territory and slaughtered people. I told them, “Just imagine what it would be like if Russia were to harbour militants from, say, the Irish Republican Army – not the ones that are negotiating and pursuing a compromise with the government these days (those are perfectly sane and sensible people), but the ones with a radical agenda.” You know what I was told in response? “But that’s exactly what the Soviet Union used to do, aiding people like that.” First of all, I’m a former operative of the Soviet secret service myself. I don’t know whether the USSR used to aid this sort of people or not, simply because I never had anything to do with it. But even if we assume that it did, that was back in the Cold War era. There has been a cardinal change in the settings, the Soviet Union is history, and what we have today is a new Russia. How can we allow ourselves to be dominated by our old phobias and outdated perceptions of international relations and the kind of relations between our nations? Let them go at last. We are constantly lectured on how independent Britain’s judiciary is. It makes its own decisions, and no one can influence that. What about Julian Assange? They have ruled to have him extradited. What is it if not an evident example of a double standard? I won’t make a definitive statement, but as far as I know, Ecuador has requested guarantees from the Swedish government that Sweden wouldn’t hand over Assange to the United States. No guarantees have so far been provided. At the very least, this suggests that we are looking at a politically motivated trial. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Okay, we’ll be following the developments there… We talked about some of the problems Russia faces, one of the long-term problems Russia has been facing is the drugs trade, the import of drugs from Afghanistan. It’s increased many-fold since NATO went in a decade ago, now the troops are due out in 2014 what then. Does Russia have any hope you can curb this huge drugs problem? |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: So far, it is not being solved. We are constantly engaged in dialogue with our partners, including the nations who have their troops deployed in Afghanistan. And yet the situation has not improved – instead, it has deteriorated. The amount of drugs produced in Afghanistan has increased by 60 percent in the past year. By the way, I’m not sure about the exact figures, but some 90 percent of heroin peddled in the UK comes from Afghanistan. This is a common challenge and a common threat for us. For Russia, this is a very serious threat to our national security that cannot be overstated. More than 20 percent of the overall drug traffic coming from Afghanistan is marketed inside Russia. That makes up 70 tons of heroin and roughly 56 tons of crude opium as of last year, which is an immense amount, and it definitely qualifies as a threat to our national security. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Could you explain to our viewers what the correlation was? Why did this problem increase when NATO troops came there? Was there any connection? Why was that happening? The amount of drugs produced in Afghanistan has increased by 60 percent in the past year. This is a common challenge and a common threat for us. For Russia, this is a very serious threat to our national security that cannot be overstated. |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: There is an apparent link. I won’t bring up any criminal schemes right now, but none of the nations who are currently committing their troops to Afghanistan want to make matters worse for themselves by combating drugs in Afghanistan, because drugs are Afghanistan’s way of making a living. Nine percent of that country’s GDP come from drug trafficking. If you want to substitute these 9 percent, you’ll have to pay for that – but no one wants to pay. And you cannot get anywhere with mere statements about how you are planning to make up for those drug revenues with some other kinds of income. Talk is not enough – what you need is substantive economic policies and financial assistance. Nobody seems willing to provide that, to begin with. And no one wants to complicate matters for themselves by taking on drug trafficking, because if you take away drug revenues from those people, you effectively compel them to starvation, and that means getting yourself even more enemies inside Afghanistan: if you go after drugs, people will go after you. That’s all there is to it. Drugs are closely related to terrorism and organised crime, but that is something everybody is aware of already. Everyone knows that drug revenues are partly used to finance terrorist activities. But even this awareness and the realisation that Europe is being flooded with Afghan-made drugs are not enough to encourage our partners to seriously tackle this issue. And this is very sad. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: I believe we are even better prepared this time, because we’ve already experienced the first wave of the crisis, and we have an understanding of what’s to be done about it and how we should do it. We have the instruments for crisis management. Moreover, I’ve tasked Russia’s previous Cabinet as early as last year with upgrading these instruments we had already tried and tested, drafting new laws and adjusting our regulations. We requested the parliament to assign 200 billion rubles as a government reserve fund – and the parliament agreed. Therefore, we are generally equipped for managing a crisis. On top of that, as you know, we have enjoyed fairly strong economic growth, with a growth rate of 4.2 percent, which is the highest rate among the world’s largest economies next to China and India. The eurozone’s average growth rate has been 3.9 percent, while ours was 4.2. By the way, both the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank are predicting negative growth at minus 0.3 percent for the eurozone next year. This year, we are still counting on positive growth ranging between 4 and 5 percent. This is an essential feature that tells us that, even if Russia should face economic difficulties, it will still have plenty of instruments at hand to deal with such a challenge. We are interested in seeing the Eurozone survive and our main partner economies get back on track. We need Europe’s leading economies to be in good shape. We have reinforced our gold and currency reserves, almost bringing them back up to pre-crisis levels. With upwards of $500 billion in gold and currency reserves, we presently rate third worldwide next to China and Japan. In parallel to that, the government is rebuilding its own reserves. We have two government reserve funds: the $80-billion National Welfare Fund, and the Reserve Fund with roughly $60 billion, which serves to finance a budget deficit, should we suffer one. But so far, we don’t have a deficit: our next year’s budget registers a surplus, slight as it may be. Our unemployment rates are the lowest possible. While unemployment averages 11.2 percent in the eurozone and reaches 25–26 percent in economies such as Spain, topping 70 percent among youth, we maintain an unemployment rate of 5.1 percent, which is even below pre-crisis indices. But this doesn’t make us careless and complacent. We are fully aware that the tricky part about the global economy is how unpredictable these kinds of developments are, and you can almost never be sure as to where the greatest challenges and threats will emerge next. That is why we closely follow everything that’s going on in neighbouring economies and our partner economies. We wish them success, and we are honestly willing to assist them as good partners. Because any kind of economic mishap in the eurozone, for instance, is bound to have painful ramifications for our own economy. The eurozone is our major sales market. Should they shrink, our own production will immediately go down. Therefore, we are interested in seeing the eurozone survive and our main partner economies get back on track. We need Europe’s leading economies such as Germany, France and Britain to be in good shape. This is something that we’ll always keep an eye on. And this will be a primary topic for discussion at the Vladivostok APEC Summit. Kevin |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified OWEN: Well, we wish you all the very best, Mr President. Thank you for talking to RT. |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Vladimir Putin: Thank you very much. Topics APEC Foreign policy |