Transcript
Sergey Lavrov Interview with Bloomberg
English includes full house translations. Review is pending; untranslated passages and selected digest glosses remain labelled.
| Русский | English |
|---|---|
| Спасибо, министр, большое спасибо за участие. Я хотел бы начать с вопроса о переговорах, которые проходят сегодня в Киеве. Видите ли вы какие-либо шансы на их успех? Честно говоря, я не видел никакой информации о деталях этих переговоров. Я понимаю, что это результат давления, которое ОСК оказывает на украинские власти в Киеве в соответствии с Женевским заявлением от 17 апреля, в котором содержится призыв к всеобъемлющему национальному диалогу с участием всех политических групп и регионов Украины. |
Full house translation — pending review Thank you, Minister, many thanks for your participation. I would like to begin with a question about the negotiations taking place today in Kyiv. Do you see any chances for their success? Honestly, I have not seen any information about the details of these negotiations. I understand that this is a result of the pressure that the OSCE is exerting on the Ukrainian authorities in Kyiv in accordance with the Geneva statement from 17 April, which contains a call for a comprehensive national dialogue involving all political groups and regions of Ukraine. |
| 1 Kyiv Round Table and Inclusive National Dialogue | |
| Честно говоря, я не знаю, каков именно состав Круглого стола, о котором, как я понимаю, не очень громко заявлялось. Мы считаем, что для успеха этого национального диалога абсолютно необходимо обеспечить равное участие всех регионов Украины, не только восточных и южных, но и западных, где у нас также есть некоторые вопросы, связанные с самоопределением меньшинств, которые хотят реализовать свои права. Они хотят культурной автономии, как это проявилось в заявлении премьер- министра Венгрии Виктора Орбана. |
Full house translation — pending review Honestly, I do not know exactly what the composition of the Round Table is, about which, as I understand, not very loudly was declared. We believe that for the success of this national dialogue it is absolutely necessary to ensure equal participation of all regions of Ukraine, not only eastern and southern, but also western, where we also have some issues related to the self-determination of minorities that want to realize their rights. They want cultural autonomy, as this was manifested in the statement of the Prime Minister of Hungary Viktor Orbán. |
| 2 Western Minorities and Blood on Hands Rhetoric | |
| Таким образом, инклюзивность является ключом к успеху этого мероприятия, но любой шаг в направлении национального диалога приветствуется. Насколько я понимаю, центральное правительство Украины радо видеть за столом переговоров любого, у кого нет крови на руках. Разве это не правильно? Разве это неприемлемый способ ведения переговоров? Должны ли сепаратисты, которые воюют, иметь место за столом? Да, кто будет выносить оценочное суждение о крови на руках? Это очень риторическое заявление. |
Full house translation — pending review Thus, inclusiveness is the key to the success of this event, but any step towards a national dialogue is welcomed. As far as I understand, the central government of Ukraine is happy to see at the negotiating table anyone who does not have blood on their hands. Is this not correct? Is this an unacceptable way of conducting negotiations? Should separatists who are fighting have a place at the table? Yes, who will make an evaluative judgment about blood on hands? This is a very rhetorical statement. |
| Это как мы видели в связи с сирийским кризисом, когда Запад заявил, что любой может участвовать в правительстве и переговорах, кроме тех, у кого кровь на руках. И как вы определяете людей с кровью на руках? Будут ли нынешние члены коалиции соответствовать этим критериям? Они были непосредственно вовлечены в события на Майдане и в феврале. Нынешний секретарь Совета безопасности Украины г-н Паруи был замечен с… снайперская винтовка, изъятие её из машины и так далее. |
Full house translation — pending review This is what we saw in connection with the Syrian crisis, when the West declared that anyone can participate in the government and negotiations, except those who have blood on their hands. And how do you define people with blood on their hands? Will current members of the coalition meet these criteria? They were directly involved in the events on Maidan and in February. The current Secretary of the Security Council of Ukraine, Mr. Parui, was seen with... a sniper rifle, taking it out of the car and so on. |
| 3 Reconciliation or Winner Takes All | |
| Либо национальное примирение, либо победитель забирает всё, и победитель определяет, кому это достанется. Итак, очевидно, вы не удовлетворены нынешней ситуацией с точки зрения того, как идёт дипломатический процесс. Что нужно России, чтобы она назвала то, что должно быть в сделке, которую Россия сочтёт приемлемой? В основном, это передача власти. В основном, это Женевское заявление от 17 апреля, которое начинается с запрета применения силы, насилия и отсутствия насилия. |
Full house translation — pending review Either national reconciliation, or the victor takes everything, and the victor determines who gets what. So, obviously, you are not satisfied with the current situation in terms of how the diplomatic process is going. What does Russia need to call for what should be in the deal that Russia would consider acceptable? Mainly, it is the transfer of power. Mainly, it is the Geneva statement from 17 April, which begins with a ban on the use of force, violence, and the absence of violence. |
| 4 Russia's Acceptable Deal — Geneva Statement and No Violence | |
| Отсутствие насилия означает, что все стороны, а не только Восток и Юг, как пыталась представить Виктория Нуланд после нашей встречи в Женеве, должны согласиться. Всё это заявление касается Востока и Юга, что является искажением, верно? Нет, нет, насилия. Во-первых, это конец этой антитеррористической операции. Вы не можете приглашать людей садиться за стол переговоров, продолжая обстреливать их из артиллерии, с самолётов, вертолётов. И мы, безусловно, хотим понять, как это произошло. |
Full house translation — pending review The absence of violence means that all sides, not only the East and the South, as Victoria Nuland tried to portray after our meeting in Geneva, must agree. This entire statement concerns the East and the South, which is a distortion, right? No, no, violence. First, this is the end of this counter-terrorism operation. You cannot invite people to sit at the negotiating table while continuing to shell them with artillery, from aircraft, helicopters. And we certainly want to understand how this happened. ] |
| 6 Decentralization and Elected Governors as Dialogue Outcome | |
| Логотип, неокрашенные вертолеты использовались против протестующих на востоке и юге. Организация Объединенных Наций уже выразила глубокую озабоченность, но суть в том, что если вы хотите продвигать национальный диалог, вы не должны делать это, когда боретесь с демонстрантами, которые не согласны с вашим правительством. Хорошо, значит, никакого насилия, какая-то децентрализация, избранные губернаторы... вот что должно быть, Райан. Это должен быть результат процесса национального диалога. |
Full house translation — pending review The logo, unpainted helicopters were used against protesters in the east and south. The United Nations has already expressed deep concern, but the point is that if you want to advance national dialogue, you should not do so when fighting demonstrators who disagree with your government. Okay, so no violence, some decentralization, elected governors... that is what should be, Ryan. This must be the result of the national dialogue process. ] |
| 7 EU Membership vs CIS Free-Trade Obligations | |
| Как я уже сказал, вы не излагаете эти условия сейчас. Ну, это должно быть целью. Это должно быть предметом национального диалога. Может ли Украина быть частью Европейского союза? Будет ли это приемлемо для России? Это решать украинцам, но если они выберут этот путь, они должны понимать, каковы будут последствия для их обязательств в рамках экономических соглашений внутри СНГ. Именно Украина настояла на подписании договора о зоне свободной торговли в СНГ. |
Full house translation — pending review As I have already said, you are not laying out these conditions now. Well, this should be the goal. This should be the subject of a national dialogue. Can Ukraine be part of the European Union? Will this be acceptable to Russia? It is up to the Ukrainians to decide, but if they choose this path, they must understand what the consequences will be for their commitments under economic agreements within the CIS. It was Ukraine itself that insisted on signing the agreement on a free trade zone within the CIS. |
| Президент Юшенко, кстати, был инициатором, и в конечном итоге другие члены СНГ и Россия неохотно согласились, потому что мы должны были проиграть. В экономическом плане мы договорились, и теперь в СНГ существует зона свободной торговли, поэтому им необходимо согласовать свои обязательства в рамках этого экономического соглашения с экономическими соглашениями, к которым они хотят присоединиться. |
Full house translation — pending review President Yushchenko, by the way, was the initiator, and in the end other CIS members and Russia reluctantly agreed because we had to lose. In economic terms we agreed, and now there is a free trade zone in the CIS, so they need to coordinate their commitments under this economic agreement with the economic agreements to which they want to join. |
| 5 Nuland Distortion and Artillery at the Table | |
| Если они хотят присоединиться к Украине, то это будет не только вопросом украинского народа и НАТО, но и вопросом России, потому что мы заключили соглашения с членами НАТО о том, что НАТО изначально не будет расширяться. Затем, когда НАТО расширилось, вопреки обязательствам, что на территории новых членов не будет существенных боевых сил, а военная инфраструктура не будет перемещена к российским границам, все это было нарушено тем или иным образом. |
Full house translation — pending review If they want to join Ukraine, then this will not only be a matter for the Ukrainian people and NATO, but also a matter for Russia, because we concluded agreements with NATO members that NATO would not initially expand. Then, when NATO expanded, in violation of commitments that there would be no significant combat forces on the territory of new members and military infrastructure would not be moved to Russian borders, all of this was violated in one way or another. |
| Попытки втянуть Украину в НАТО будут крайне негативно влиять на всю систему европейской безопасности, и мы категорически против этого. Мне нечего скрывать, на самом деле, хорошо, что вы поднимаете этот вопрос. На мой взгляд, все началось гораздо раньше, все началось в 90-х годах, когда НАТО решило, несмотря на все заявления... что «холодный мальчик» закончился и победителей быть не должно. НАТО действительно считало себя победителем, но на практике нынешний кризис начался. |
Full house translation — pending review Attempts to draw Ukraine into NATO will have a very negative impact on the entire European security system, and we are firmly against this. I have nothing to hide, actually, it is good that you raise this issue. In my opinion, it all started much earlier, it all started in the 90s, when NATO decided, despite all statements... that the 'cold war' was over and there should be no winners. NATO really considered itself the winner, but in practice the current crisis began. |
| 8 NATO Broken Pledges and Bucharest 2008 Crisis Seeds | |
| Семена нынешнего кризиса были посеяны в апреле 2008 года во время саммита НАТО в Бухаресте, где лидеры НАТО заявили в декларации, что Грузия и Украина войдут в НАТО. Через несколько месяцев г-н Сакаш, восприняв это очень эмоционально, учитывая его характер, решил, что получил разрешение вторгнуться в свою собственную страну и разрешить конфликт в Южной Азии силой. Безусловно, им двигало это обещание НАТО. |
Full house translation — pending review The seeds of the current crisis were sown in April 2008 during the NATO summit in Bucharest, where NATO leaders declared in a declaration that Georgia and Ukraine would join NATO. A few months later, Mr. Sakash, taking this very emotionally, given his character, decided that he had received permission to invade his own country and resolve the conflict in South Asia by force. Undoubtedly, they were driven by this NATO promise. |
| 9 Historical Ties — Kyiv Not Backyard, Novorossiya and Border Treaty | |
| Кстати, как сейчас в Украине, Сакаш вскоре после этого начал разрушать памятники героям Второй мировой войны, украинцам. Неофашистские тенденции очень заметны в контексте приглашения в НАТО и в контексте политики тех, кто считает, что Украина должна вступить в НАТО. Проблема в том, что вы считаете Западом, Соединенными Штатами, Европой, вмешивающимися в то, что вы считаете своим задним двором. Вовсе нет, это не наш задний двор. Мы не можем считать что-то бывшим, это не бывшее советское пространство. |
Full house translation — pending review By the way, just as is happening in Ukraine now, Sakash soon after this began destroying monuments to heroes of the Second World War, Ukrainians. Neo-fascist tendencies are very noticeable in the context of the invitation to NATO and in the context of the policy of those who believe that Ukraine should join NATO. The problem is that you consider the West, the United States, Europe, intervening in what you consider your backyard. Not at all, this is not our backyard. We cannot consider something to be former, it is not former Soviet space. |
| КФ — мать российских городов. Русский язык, русская религия, православное христианство зародились на территории Украины в том виде, в каком она существует сейчас, и мы не считаем себя иностранцами. Латинская Америка, где существовало смешение культур и традиций, отличается от территории Северной Америки. И мы были одной нацией более 300 лет, даже раньше славяне, когда они принесли туда религию более тысячи лет назад, абсолютно невозможно не заметить это психологическое, историческое, семейное чувство. |
Full house translation — pending review KF — mother of Russian cities. The Russian language, Russian religion, Orthodox Christianity were born on the territory of Ukraine in the form in which they exist now, and we do not consider ourselves foreigners. Latin America, where there was a mixing of cultures and traditions, differs from the territory of North America. And we were one nation for more 300 years, even earlier than Slavs, when they brought religion there more than a thousand years ago, it is absolutely impossible not to notice this psychological, historical, family feeling. |
| Если хотите, вы подняли очень важный вопрос. Президент Путин не так давно упомянул термин «Новая Россия», который является эмпирическим термином, обозначающим часть того, что сегодня является Украиной, то есть то, что было частью Российской империи. Дает ли это России право претендовать на это? Он сказал, что нет. Это термин средневековья, например, Малия, Малия Новария, и это как, знаете, когда вы спрашиваете людей в Европе, откуда вы, и они говорят: «Южная Америка». |
Full house translation — pending review If you wish, you raised a very important question. President Putin not long ago mentioned the term 'New Russia', which is an empirical term denoting part of what today is Ukraine, that is, what was part of the Russian Empire. Does this give Russia the right to claim this? He said no. This is a medieval term, for example, Maliya, Maliya Novaria, and it is like, you know, when you ask people in Europe where they are from, and they say: 'South America'. |
| Чувствуете ли вы в этом неоимпериалистический замысел? Это исторический термин. Но президент Путин также сказал, что одному Богу известно, почему советские власти передали Украине части восточной Украины, которые принадлежали России. Но это факт, это утверждение, это констатация факта, потому что советские власти, министр иностранных дел... многие люди, услышав это, подумали: «Ну, это звучит точно так же, как то, что он сказал о передаче Крыма Кусовом Украине в 1964 году». |
Full house translation — pending review Do you feel a neo-imperialist design in this? It is a historical term. But President Putin also said that only God knows why Soviet authorities transferred parts of eastern Ukraine that belonged to Russia to Ukraine. But this is a fact, this is a statement, this is a statement of fact, because Soviet authorities, the foreign minister... many people, hearing this, thought: 'Well, this sounds exactly like what he said about transferring Crimea to Kusov Ukraine in 1964 year'. |
| Это еще одно оправдание, историческая рационализация захвата земель на востоке страны? Нет, совсем нет. Это констатация факта, это констатация факта. Действительно, одному Богу известно, почему советские власти делили административные границы внутри Советского Союза таким образом. Иногда генеральный секретарь партии был из Украины, например, Кусов или Брон, и они перетасовывали эти территории, потому что никто, даже в самых страшных кошмарах, не мог представить, что Советский Союз перестанет существовать. |
Full house translation — pending review Is this another excuse, a historical rationalization for the seizure of lands in the eastern part of the country? No, absolutely not. It is a statement of fact, it is a statement of fact. Indeed, only God knows why Soviet authorities divided administrative boundaries within the Soviet Union in such a way. Sometimes the General Secretary of the Party was from Ukraine, for example, Kuzov or Bron, and they reshuffled these territories because no one, not even in the most terrible nightmares, could imagine that the Soviet Union would cease to exist. |
| В конце концов, когда Советский Союз распался, не было никакого намерения пытаться вернуть то, что было дано Украине или любой другой республике под советским руководством. Более того, несколько лет назад мы завершили работу над договором о границе с Украиной и начали демаркацию сухопутной границы с Украиной, даже не думая о том, чтобы оспорить этот результат. Это лишь события последних нескольких месяцев. |
Full house translation — pending review In the end, when the Soviet Union collapsed, there was no intention to try to return what was given to Ukraine or any other republic under Soviet leadership. Moreover, a few years ago we completed work on the border agreement with Ukraine and began demarcation of the land border with Ukraine, without even thinking about contesting this result. These are only events of the last few months. |
| Это лишь тот факт, что нынешний режим при поддержке Соединенных Штатов и Европейского союза пришел к власти, опираясь на неоновых экстремистов, которые пытаются использовать силу для навязывания своих правил, антироссийской политики, отмены прав русских, этнических русских в Украине, и прав русскоязычных, что, знаете ли, привело к тому, что жители Крыма оказались в... Восстание против этого – это хорошо, справедливо, и чтобы защитить их, я хочу затронуть много тем, поэтому позвольте мне задать вам быстрый вопрос. |
Full house translation — pending review It is only the fact that the current regime, with the support of the United States and the European Union, came to power relying on neonazis who are trying to use force to impose their rules, anti-Russian policy, cancellation of the rights of Russians, ethnic Russians in Ukraine, and rights of Russian speakers, which, you know, led to the fact that residents of Crimea ended up in... A revolt against this is good, just, and to protect them, I want to touch on many topics, so let me ask you a quick question. |
| Моя суть в том, что наша внешнеполитическая доктрина гласит, что мы должны демаркировать границы со всеми бывшими советскими республиками, и мы это делали, мы были в процессе работы с украинцами. Поэтому, когда произошел этот незаконный вооруженный переворот, хорошо? Может ли Россия гарантировать миру, что самые восточные и южные части Украины не станут частью России, что не будет аннексии этой территории? Послушайте, вы должны действительно принять то, что я говорю, – да или нет. Ну, это очень упрощенный подход. |
Full house translation — pending review My point is that our foreign policy doctrine states that we must demarcate borders with all former Soviet republics, and we did so, we were in the process of working with Ukrainians. Therefore, when this illegal armed coup happened, right? Can Russia guarantee to the world that the eastern and southern parts of Ukraine will not become part of Russia, that there will be no annexation of this territory? Listen, you really must accept what I am saying – yes or no. Well, this is a very simplified approach. |
| 10 Coup and Minority Rights as Reverse Guarantee | |
| Можете ли вы, Запад, гарантировать, что права русскоязычных людей, права этнических русских, права венгров, румын и других меньшинств, проживающих в Украине, будут гарантированы? Может ли кто-нибудь гарантировать нам, что нынешняя коалиция не поддержит неонацистов, как это происходит сейчас? Партия «Свабода» была избрана в украинский парламент в декабре 2012 года. |
Full house translation — pending review Can you, West, guarantee that the rights of Russian-speaking people, the rights of ethnic Russians, the rights of Hungarians, Romanians and other minorities living in Ukraine will be guaranteed? Can anyone guarantee us that the current coalition will not support neo-Nazis, as is happening now? The 'Svoboda' party was elected to the Ukrainian parliament in December 2012. |
| 11 Svoboda and Farion in Western-Backed Far-Right Coalition | |
| Европейский союз выразил протест, и, как и в случае с выборами г-на Хайдера в Австрии, они заявили, что никто в Украине, в украинской политической сфере, не должен сотрудничать с этой партией «Свабода». Этот джентльмен и его партия являются членами коалиции, поддерживаемой Западом, и публично продвигают антироссийские антисемитские заявления в парламенте. А женщина из этой партии, Фарон, отвечающая за реформу образования, одобрила произошедшее в Адессе. |
Full house translation — pending review The European Union expressed protest, and, as in the case of Mr. Haider's election in Austria, they stated that no one in Ukraine, in the Ukrainian political sphere, should cooperate with this 'Svoboda' party. This gentleman and his party are members of the coalition supported by the West, and publicly promote anti-Russian antisemitic statements in parliament. And a woman from this party, Faron, responsible for education reform, approved what happened in Adessa. |
| Поэтому я считаю, что мы должны начинать не с искусственных гипотетических вопросов о том, будет ли кто-то вторгаться во что-то, а с сути того, как люди будут чувствовать себя в любой стране на Земле. Поэтому я думаю, что в отношении территории за пределами России, на территории бывшего Советского Союза, вы не можете дать гарантию, что эти территории за пределами России, но внутри бывшего Советского Союза, останутся за пределами России. |
Full house translation — pending review Therefore, I believe that we should start not with artificial hypothetical questions about whether someone will invade something, but with the essence of how people will feel in any country on Earth. Therefore, I think that regarding territory outside Russia, on the territory of the former Soviet Union, you cannot guarantee that these territories outside Russia, but within the former Soviet Union, will remain outside Russia. |
| 12 Transnistria Model and Crimea Referendum Trigger | |
| Я могу сказать только одно: когда мы говорим о Приднестровье, мы четко заявили, что выступаем за урегулирование, которое будет уважать территориальную целостность и суверенитет МОВЫ при условии, что МОВА сохранит свой нейтралитет, закрепленный в ее Конституции, и при условии, что Кишо согласен с Таселем по поводу особого статуса Трансконтиненты в Украине. Один очень прямой, очень конкретный пример. Я не хотел, чтобы об этом говорили, но я не думаю, что это секрет. |
Full house translation — pending review I can only say one thing: when we talk about Transnistria, we clearly stated that we support a settlement that will respect the territorial integrity and sovereignty of MOVA on the condition that MOVA maintains its neutrality, enshrined in its Constitution, and on the condition that Kisho agrees with Tasele regarding the special status of Transcontinent in Ukraine. One very direct, very specific example. I did not want this to be talked about, but I do not think it is a secret. |
| 13 Ukraine Support Group — Neutral Status and Western Legitimization | |
| После того, как ситуация в Крыму разрешилась так, как она разрешилась после референдума, и после того, как у нас не осталось другого выбора, кроме как полностью ответить на просьбу крымского народа подавляющим большинством голосов о воссоединении с Россией, со стороны Москвы была инициатива по созданию группы поддержки Украины. Россия, ЕС и другие страны должны были помочь украинцам начать национальный диалог. |
Full house translation — pending review After the situation in Crimea was resolved as it was resolved after the referendum, and after we had no other choice but to fully respond to the overwhelming majority of the Crimean people's request to reunite with Russia, Moscow initiated the creation of a support group for Ukraine. Russia, the EU, and other countries were supposed to help Ukrainians begin a national dialogue. |
| Мы изложили наше видение того, как этот диалог может быть проведен: децентрализация, федерализация, как бы вы это ни называли, соглашение, которое вы называете, вы сказали, децентрализация, Райан, называйте это как хотите, но главное — это суть, удовлетворяет ли эта реформа все регионы, и должно быть какое-то решение, которое удовлетворяет все регионы, русский язык должен соблюдаться. Затем мы заявили о нейтральном статусе Украины. С военно-политической точки зрения, все эти аспекты должны быть соблюдены. |
Full house translation — pending review We outlined our vision of how this dialogue could be conducted: decentralization, federalization, however you call it, the agreement you call it, you said, decentralization, Ryan, call it whatever you want, but the main thing is the essence, does this reform satisfy all regions, and there must be some solution that satisfies all regions, the Russian language must be observed. Then we declared the neutral status of Ukraine. From a military-political point of view, all these aspects must be observed. |
| Мы перечислили все эти моменты, а затем в предложении, которое мы представили американцам и европейцам, мы заявили, что реформированное украинское государство будет гарантировано Россией, Европейским союзом, Соединенными Штатами и Советом Безопасности как суверенное, территориально целостное, и все, что вы хотели бы добавить, чтобы подчеркнуть, что это будет уважаться всеми. К сожалению, мы не получили никакого ответа на это предложение. |
Full house translation — pending review We listed all these points, and then in the proposal we presented to Americans and Europeans, we stated that the reformed Ukrainian state would be guaranteed by Russia, the European Union, the United States, and the Security Council as sovereign and territorially intact, and everything you would like to add to emphasize that this would be respected by all. Unfortunately, we received no response to this proposal. |
| И в отличие от нашей идеи о том, что конституционный процесс должен быть инклюзивным и уважительным ко всем регионам, шаги, предпринятые нашими партнерами на Западе, особенно Соединенными Штатами и Европейским союзом, указывают на то, что их главная цель — не достижение национального примирения в Украине, а легитимизация режима, который они привели к власти, на условиях, которые были бы удобны для этого режима и навязаны остальной части страны. |
Full house translation — pending review And unlike our idea that the constitutional process should be inclusive and respectful to all regions, the steps taken by our Western partners, especially the United States and the European Union, indicate that their main goal is not achieving national reconciliation in Ukraine, but legitimizing the regime they brought to power, under conditions that would be convenient for this regime and imposed on the rest of the country. |
| 14 Civil War Proximity — Odessa and Artillery Deaths | |
| В начале месяца в Одессе произошел трагический пожар, а за последние 24 часа на востоке страны погибли семь украинских военнослужащих. Насколько близка Украина к гражданской войне? Вам также следует добавить... Довольно много людей, погибших в результате самообороны от артиллерийского огня, обстрелов ударных вертолетов за последние 24 часа. Да, абсолютно точно. Славянские обстрелы очень опасны. Насколько это может быть плохо, когда украинцы убивают украинцев? |
Full house translation — pending review At the beginning of the month, a tragic fire occurred in Odessa, and in the last 24 hours, seven Ukrainian servicemen died in the east of the country. How close is Ukraine to civil war? You should also add... Quite a lot of people killed in self-defense from artillery fire, strikes by attack helicopters in the last 24 hours. Yes, absolutely. Slavic strikes are very dangerous. How bad can it be when Ukrainians kill Ukrainians? |
| Я считаю, что это максимально близко к гражданской войне. Так что же сейчас происходит? Есть люди без каких-либо опознавательных знаков на черной форме. Некоторые говорят, что это правый сектор, и что там много бандитов из этого сектора? Были сообщения о нескольких сотнях или более наемниках, включая слухи, которые распространялись в немецких СМИ о Greystone или Academy, бывшей американской частной военной организации Blackwater. Верите ли вы, что есть американские наемники? |
Full house translation — pending review I believe this is as close to civil war as it gets. So what is happening now? There are people without any identifying insignia in black uniforms. Some say it is the Right Sector, and that there are many bandits from this sector? There were reports of several hundred or more mercenaries, including rumors spread in German media about Greystone or Academy, the former American private military organization Blackwater. Do you believe there are American mercenaries? |
| Я отправляю сообщение через нашего посла в Вашингтон с просьбой ответить на эти утверждения немецких СМИ, потому что слухи, я думаю, распространялись еще раньше. Джон Кри отверг их, но теперь они снова всплыли, и мы хотели бы выяснить, правда это или нет. |
Full house translation — pending review I am sending a message through our ambassador in Washington asking for a response to these assertions by German media, because I think the rumors were spreading even earlier. John Crye denied them, but now they have resurfaced, and we would like to find out if this is true or not. |
| Мы также спросили об отношении Соединенных Штатов к телефонному разговору между министром внутренних дел Аваковым и некоторыми его собеседниками, который, по сути, указывает на то, что он, возможно, был причастен к покушению на жизнь губернатора ХОВ и, возможно, к приглашению иностранных боевиков на Украину, просьбе о переводчиках и так далее. Мы ждем ответов, потому что, знаете ли, у вас пока нет мнения. |
Full house translation — pending review We also asked about the United States' position on a phone call between Interior Minister Avakov and some of his interlocutors, which essentially indicates that he may have been involved in an attempt on the life of Governor KHOV and possibly in inviting foreign fighters to Ukraine, requests for translators, and so on. We are waiting for answers, because, you know, you do not have an opinion yet. |
| В общем, у нас есть очень сильные подозрения, что это может быть правдой, и каждый раз, когда мы встречаемся с нашими западными друзьями, американцами и европейцами, они говорят: «Не стоит притворяться, что вас там нет». Были сообщения о том, что украинцы задержали 10 или 12 российских агентов, и нашей немедленной реакцией было: «Пожалуйста, представьте их миру, покажите документы, покажите фотографии, покажите интервью с ними». И это продолжается уже много лет. |
Full house translation — pending review In general, we have very strong suspicions that this may be true, and every time we meet with our Western friends, Americans and Europeans, they say: 'Do not pretend that you are not there'. There have been reports that Ukrainians detained 10 or 12 Russian agents, and our immediate reaction was: 'Please present them to the world, show the documents, show the photos, show interviews with them'. And this has been going on for many years. |
| Прошло уже больше месяца, ни одно обвинение не было доказано. С другой стороны, вопросы, которые мы задаем нашим западным друзьям, остаются без ответа и без каких-либо возражений. Знаете, мы будем называть это блефом. И, к сожалению, я сказал, что вы максимально близки к гражданской войне. Но вот что интересно: во время последних раундов переговоров по Украине в Париже, Женеве и других местах я всегда предлагал своим собеседникам поговорить со СМИ, но они всегда отказывались. Я не знаю почему. |
Full house translation — pending review More than a month has passed, not a single accusation has been proven. On the other hand, the questions we ask our Western friends remain unanswered and without any objections. You know, we will call this bluff. And, unfortunately, I said that you are as close as possible to civil war. But here is what is interesting: during the last rounds of negotiations on Ukraine in Paris, Geneva and other places, I always offered my interlocutors to talk to the media, but they always refused. I do not know why. |
| Есть ли какой-либо способ, чтобы Украина, на ваш взгляд, провела легитимные выборы 25 мая? Я не знаю, посмотрим. Голосовать будем не мы, а регионы Украины. На самом деле, они изменили избирательный закон несколько недель назад, может быть, пару месяцев назад, теперь голосование должно проводиться только в одном регионе, и этого будет достаточно. Посмотрите. Очень забавный закон, вам не нужно никаких ограничений, знаете ли, нет никаких ограничений для тех, кто должен голосовать, нет минимального количества. |
Full house translation — pending review Is there any way, in your opinion, for Ukraine to hold legitimate elections by 25 May? I do not know, we will see. We will not vote, but the regions of Ukraine will vote. In fact, they changed the electoral law a few weeks ago, maybe a couple of months ago, now voting should be conducted only in one region, and that will be enough. Look. A very funny law, you do not need any restrictions, you know, there are no restrictions for those who should vote, there is no minimum number. |
| И все будет зависеть от того, изберут ли они своего президента в рамках так называемой контртеррористической операции, которая продолжается, или же они обнаружат, что воюют, тогда это будет очевидно. Я не думаю, что люди пойдут голосовать на Востоке и Юге, если только подавляющее большинство населения страны не примет участие в голосовании. Голосование все равно будет контролироваться ОСК, но, возможно, этого будет недостаточно для России. |
Full house translation — pending review And everything will depend on whether they elect their president within the framework of the so-called counter-terrorist operation, which continues, or whether they discover that they are fighting, then it will be obvious. I do not think that people will go to vote in the East and South, unless the overwhelming majority of the country's population participates in the voting. The voting will still be controlled by the CTO, but perhaps this will not be enough for Russia. |
| 15 May 25 Elections and February 21 Agreement Violation | |
| Это должно быть достаточно хорошо для украинцев, и это должно быть легитимно в глазах украинцев. ОСК, мы знаем, насколько опытны эти люди, насколько креативными они могут быть. Мы не отправили наших людей в эту миссию, которая будет следить за выборами, потому что у нас есть довольно много вопросов. Но, как сказал президент Путин, любые выборы — это правильное движение в правильном направлении. И нам придётся судить об этих выборах по их результатам. |
Full house translation — pending review This should be good enough for the Ukrainians, and it should be legitimate in the eyes of the Ukrainians. OSK, we know how experienced these people are, how creative they can be. We did not send our people on this mission that would monitor the elections because we have quite a few questions. But, as President Putin said, any elections are a movement in the right direction. And we will have to judge these elections by their results. |
| Конечно, похоже, вы обесцениваете их ещё до того, как они состоятся. Нет, я сказал, что это движение в правильном направлении. И я также сказал, что вы, по сути, когда люди говорили, что референдум в Крыму был нелегитимным, потому что он проводился под... ну, вы знаете, оружием. На востоке и юге Украины не было произведено ни единого выстрела. Идёт война, настоящая война с применением тяжёлого оружия. И если это способствует свободным и справедливым выборам, то я не понимаю, что значит «свобода и справедливость». |
Full house translation — pending review Of course, it seems you are devaluing them even before they take place. No, I said that this is a movement in the right direction. And I also said that you, essentially, when people said that the referendum in Crimea was illegitimate because it was conducted under... well, you know, weapons. On the east and south of Ukraine not a single shot was fired. There is a war, a real war with heavy weapons. And if this contributes to free and fair elections, then I do not understand what 'freedom and fairness' means. |
| Вы не признаёте легитимность нынешнего правительства? Нет, вы это очень ясно дали понять. И это одна из причин, почему вы сказали, что не можете с ними иметь дело, потому что они не были избраны законным путём. Нет, мы действительно с ними имеем дело, это правда. Сможете ли вы более конструктивно взаимодействовать с новоизбранным президентом Украины, чего вы сейчас не можете, потому что, насколько вам известно, эти люди не были избраны? |
Full house translation — pending review You do not recognize the legitimacy of the current government? No, you made that very clear. And this is one of the reasons why you said that you cannot deal with them because they were not elected in a legal manner. No, we are indeed dealing with them, that is true. Will you be able to interact more constructively with the newly elected President of Ukraine, which you cannot do now because, as far as you know, these people were not elected? |
| У них нет легитимности, поэтому Хэмп... ну, нам придётся посмотреть, что на самом деле произойдут эти выборы, состоятся ли они вообще, пока продолжается война, пока продолжаются нападения на протесты, грубое нарушение... Женевское заявление – грубое нарушение соглашения от 21 февраля. Кстати, одним из первых обязательств нынешней коалиции в рамках соглашения от 21 февраля было создание правительства национального единства. |
Full house translation — pending review They have no legitimacy, so Hamp... well, we will have to see what actually happens with these elections, whether they will take place at all while the war continues, while attacks on protests continue, gross violation... The Geneva statement is a gross violation of the agreement from 21 February. By the way, one of the first obligations of the current coalition under the agreement from 21 February was the creation of a government of national unity. |
| На следующий день после подписания они заявили, что это обязательство утратило силу, поскольку Януковича не было в Кении, он был в Украине. Это важный момент, Янукович был в Украине. Но если они сказали, что это только потому, что Януковича не было в Кении, то они не связаны этим обязательством по созданию правительства национального единства. Мой вопрос: было ли обязательство по национальному единству дано только для президента Януковича, для своей страны или для своего народа? |
Full house translation — pending review The day after the signing they declared that the commitment had become void because Yanukovych was not in Kenya, he was in Ukraine. This is an important point, Yanukovych was in Ukraine. But if they said it was only because Yanukovych was not in Kenya, then they are not bound by this commitment to create a government of national unity. My question: was the commitment to national unity given only for President Yanukovych, for his own country, or for his own people? |
| Вместо этого они создали то, что назвали Коалицией победителей. Яцук отправился на Майдан, чтобы похвастаться, что теперь они – правительство победителей, и попросил жителей Майдана поддержать нас в этом качестве, что они и сделали. Я думаю, я спрашиваю: облегчат ли выборы в Украине, выборы президента и, в конечном итоге, правительства, этот процесс? |
Full house translation — pending review Instead, they created what they called the Coalition of Winners. Yatsuk went to Maidan to boast that now they are the government of winners, and asked the residents of Maidan to support us in this capacity, which they did. I think, I ask: will the elections in Ukraine, the presidential election, and, ultimately, the government, ease this process? |
| Найти дипломатическое решение этого кризиса, что касается России, — если появится фигура, пользующаяся поддержкой большинства украинцев, — конечно, с таким собеседником будет проще, чем с самопровозглашенными кандидатами. Но сейчас лидером украинских выборов является человек по имени Петра Парена, с которым вы готовы сотрудничать? Я его хорошо знаю. |
Full house translation — pending review To find a diplomatic solution to this crisis, as regards Russia, if a figure emerges who enjoys the support of the majority of Ukrainians, of course, it will be easier to deal with such a interlocutor than with self-proclaimed candidates. But now the leader of the Ukrainian elections is a man named Petro Parena, with whom you are ready to cooperate? I know him well. |
| В какой-то момент своей карьеры он был министром иностранных дел, затем, если я не ошибаюсь, министром экономики, а также занимал другие должности в украинских структурах. Это интересная вещь. Парена сказал, что сразу после президентских выборов он приступит к реальным реформам, и что к концу года состоятся парламентские выборы. Возможно, об этом не объявлялось, но что-то подобное обсуждается. |
Full house translation — pending review At some point in his career he was the Minister of Foreign Affairs, then, if I am not mistaken, the Minister of Economy, and also held other positions in Ukrainian structures. This is an interesting thing. Parena said that immediately after the presidential elections he would begin real reforms, and that parliamentary elections would take place by the end of the year. Perhaps this was not announced, but something similar is being discussed. |
| Соглашение от 21 февраля было вполне логичным: правительство национального единства подготовит конституционную реформу, конституцию примет, а затем на основе новой конституции состоятся выборы. Избрать президента до завершения конституционной реформы, чтобы люди, которые будут голосовать, не знали, какие полномочия они дают джентльмену или леди. Поэтому давайте вернемся к П., потому что вы назвали это… |
Full house translation — pending review The agreement from 21 February was quite logical: the government of national unity will prepare a constitutional reform, the constitution will be adopted, and then elections will take place based on the new constitution. Electing a president before completing the constitutional reform so that the people who will vote do not know what powers they are giving to a gentleman or a lady. Therefore, let us return to P., because you called this... |
| Нет, это несколько двусмысленно и… не очень логично, но все же наши западные друзья считают, что это априори свободные и честные выборы. Да, я просто… я предпочту вынести суждение после того, как увижу, что произошло. Конечно, но я пытаюсь понять, является ли ПЕД Пенка человеком, с которым вы могли бы сотрудничать, потому что, как вы знаете, Россия много раз называла правительство в Украине фашистским, говорила, что в нем есть фашизм. |
Full house translation — pending review No, it is somewhat ambiguous and... not very logical, but still our Western friends consider that a priori free and fair elections. Yes, I simply... I prefer to make a judgment after seeing what has happened. Of course, but I am trying to understand whether PED Penka is a person with whom you could cooperate, because, as you know, Russia has repeatedly called the government in Ukraine fascist, saying that there is fascism in it. |
| Мы должны спросить не все правительство, я думаю, я думаю, что партия «Шваба», лидер которой неоднократно заявлял, что Украина должна быть освобождена от… больше черепов и евреев, и который в своей программе, в программе своей партии, они… подтверждают верность Декларации 30-летия. Декларация от июня 1941 года на Украине, в которой была заявлена поддержка Нового порядка Гитлера в Европе, и они являются частью коалиции, открыто и энергично поддерживаемой Западом. П. |
Full house translation — pending review We must not ask about the entire government, I think, I think that the 'Schwab' party, whose leader has repeatedly stated that Ukraine should be liberated from... more skulls and Jews, and who in their program, in their party's program, they... confirm loyalty to the 30-year Declaration. The Declaration from June 1941 year in Ukraine, in which support for Hitler's New Order in Europe was declared, and they are part of a coalition openly and energetically supported by the West. P. |
| 16 Poroshenko vs Svoboda 1941 Declaration | |
| Пар не фашист, он не член этой партии и не фугасник. Нет, П. Паран — это тот, с кем можно вести дела. Я встречался с ним пару месяцев назад в Мюнхене на Мюнхенской конференции по безопасности. Мы можем вести дела с кем угодно, мы приглашали даже не Министерство иностранных дел, а российский парламент, спикер которого является председателем парламентской ассамблеи СНГ. Украина является одним из членов СНГ, поэтому Тринов был приглашен в качестве спикера в Санкт-Петербург на эту парламентскую ассамблею. |
Full house translation — pending review The party is not fascist, he is not a member of this party and not a fuhrer. No, P. Paran is the one with whom you can do business. I met with him a couple of months ago in Munich at the Munich Security Conference. We can do business with anyone, we even invited not the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but the Russian parliament, whose speaker is the chairman of the Parliamentary Assembly of the CIS. Ukraine is one of the members of the CIS, so Trinov was invited as a speaker to St. Petersburg for this parliamentary assembly. |
| Он решил не приезжать, это было его решение. Я несколько раз разговаривал с премьер-министром МИДом, я встречался с ним несколько раз. Он назначен исполняющим обязанности министра правительством. Министры энергетики, как вы знаете, обсуждают ситуацию с кражей Кража российского гостя... так что мы на связи. Я хочу перейти к санкциям. Президент Путин заявил, что использование санкций против России не будет эффективным. Одна из существующих угроз — введение санкций против России по иранскому образцу. |
Full house translation — pending review He decided not to come, that was his decision. I spoke with the Prime Minister of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs several times, I met with him several times. He was appointed acting minister by the government. As you know, the energy ministers discuss the situation with the theft of the Russian guest... so we are in touch. I want to move on to sanctions. President Putin stated that the use of sanctions against Russia will not be effective. One of the existing threats is the introduction of sanctions against Russia in the Iranian model. |
| И большинство людей (и я не хочу с вами спорить), согласны с тем, что санкции по иранскому образцу или санкции против Ирана были эффективны в достижении некоторых политических целей в Иране. Почему санкции по иранскому образцу не были бы эффективны против России? Я бы не сказал, что санкции против Ирана... и я понимаю, что вы говорите об односторонних санкциях, которые незаконны с точки зрения международного права, потому что санкции Совета Безопасности касаются экономических санкций. |
Full house translation — pending review And most people (and I do not want to argue with you) agree that sanctions in the Iranian model or sanctions against Iran were effective in achieving some political goals in Iran. Why would sanctions in the Iranian model not be effective against Russia? I would not say that sanctions against Iran... and I understand that you are talking about unilateral sanctions, which are illegal from the point of view of international law, because Security Council sanctions concern economic sanctions. |
| Нет, нет, нет, санкции Совета Безопасности не затрагивали секторы иранской экономики, за исключением тех, которые связаны с ядерной программой, продуктами двойного назначения и тому подобным. Финансовые санкции, с точки зрения использования системы Swift, — это санкции против секторов иранской экономики, не относящихся к продуктам двойного назначения, таких как нефтегазовая промышленность. Они незаконны, они односторонние. И я спрашиваю, и мы не... Мы не признаем их эффективность, мы их не признаем. |
Full house translation — pending review No, no, no, Security Council sanctions did not touch sectors of the Iranian economy, except those related to the nuclear program, dual-use products, and so on. Financial sanctions, in terms of using the Swift system, are sanctions against sectors of the Iranian economy not related to dual-use products, such as the oil and gas industry. They are illegal, they are unilateral. And I ask, and we do not... We do not recognize their effectiveness, we do not recognize them. |
| Я не думаю, что экономические санкции рассматриваются всерьез с точки зрения ответственности Запада в международной экономической системе. Обсуждения, как я их понимаю, основаны на желании отомстить, что всегда очень плохо для политиков, непрофессионально для любого, кто хочет заниматься серьезной политикой, и, вероятно, это окажет какое-то влияние. |
Full house translation — pending review I do not think that economic sanctions are taken seriously in terms of Western responsibility in the international economic system. Discussions, as I understand them, are based on a desire for revenge, which is always very bad for politicians, unprofessional for anyone who wants to engage in serious politics, and it will probably have some impact. |
| Я считаю, что если они прекратят долларовые транзакции для российских банков и российских компаний, это, конечно, создаст трудности для Visa и Mastercard. 95% финансовых транзакций будут заменены, и Visa и Mastercard уже обеспокоены тем, что потеряют рынок. Они уже принимают решения. Я не хочу вдаваться в эти детали. |
Full house translation — pending review I believe that if they stop dollar transactions for Russian banks and Russian companies, this will, of course, create difficulties for Visa and Mastercard. 95% of financial transactions will be replaced, and Visa and Mastercard are already concerned that they will lose the market. They are already making decisions. I do not want to go into these details. |
| Конечно, есть люди, которые изобретают эти системы, это все виртуальные деньги, все виртуальные транзакции, и все, что виртуально, может быть воспроизведено, особенно сейчас, когда в России и других странах много экспертов, которые знают, как это работает. |
Full house translation — pending review Of course, there are people who invent these systems; it is all virtual money, all virtual transactions, and whatever is virtual can be reproduced, especially now, when there are many experts in Russia and other countries who know how it works. |
| 17 Sanctions and Dollar Weapon — No Troops to East Referendum Regions | |
| Итак, моя точка зрения такова: если Запад ради мести готов пожертвовать своей репутацией надежного партнера для всей мировой экономики и всей мировой финансовой системы, и если Соединенные Штаты готовы пожертвовать своей репутацией держателя ключевой резервной валюты, то это их дело, и тогда весь мир будет думать иначе. |
Full house translation — pending review So, my point of view is as follows: if the West is ready to sacrifice its reputation as a reliable partner for the entire global economy and the entire global financial system for revenge, and if the United States is ready to sacrifice its reputation as the holder of the key reserve currency, then that is their business, and then the whole world will think differently. |
| Что если на следующее утро кто-то в Вашингтоне проснется в плохом настроении и решит устроить переворот где-нибудь в другом месте, не на Украине, а в Латинской Америке, в своей собственной бороде, как они это воспринимают? Да, тогда что это? Тогда эти люди должны быть готовы к этой ситуации. Так что, если я правильно вас понимаю, экономические санкции против России в какой-то мере окажутся успешными в нанесении ущерба российской экономике. |
Full house translation — pending review What if someone in Washington wakes up in a bad mood the next morning and decides to stage a coup somewhere else, not in Ukraine, but in Latin America, in their own backyard, as they perceive it? Yes, then what is that? Then these people must be ready for this situation. So, if I understand you correctly, economic sanctions against Russia will, to some extent, be successful in inflicting damage on the Russian economy. |
| Будут ли санкции против России эффективны в изменении российской политики на Украине? В обратную сторону, Запад станет еще более настойчивым в требовании свободных и справедливых реформ на Украине. Мы будем еще более настойчивым в требовании к Западу не поддерживать фашистов и немцев, не поддерживать никого, не поддерживать правительство, у которого есть свои недостатки. |
Full house translation — pending review Will sanctions against Russia be effective in changing Russian policy on Ukraine? In the opposite direction, the West will become even more insistent in demanding free and fair reforms in Ukraine. We will become even more insistent in demanding that the West not support fascists and Germans, not support anyone, not support a government that has its own shortcomings. |
| Неоновая вечеринка, да, еще один вопрос, на который я хотел бы получить ответ из Вашингтона, это сообщения о секретном визите координатора правого сектора Арено в Вашингтон для якобы встреч с Викторией Нуланд. Мы хотим получить ответы на эти вопросы, потому что это слишком серьезно, чтобы манипулировать событиями в Европе через Атлантику. Возможно, это не игра на пульте управления, понимаете, для нас это очень серьезно. Мы еще не видели много ответных санкций со стороны России или вообще каких-либо. |
Full house translation — pending review Neon party, yes, another question I would like to get an answer to from Washington is reports of a secret visit by the coordinator of the Right Sector Aren to Washington for alleged meetings with Victoria Nuland. We want answers to these questions because this is too serious to manipulate events in Europe across the Atlantic. Perhaps it is not a game on the control panel, you understand, for us this is very serious. We have not yet seen many retaliatory sanctions from Russia or any at all. |
| Думаю, мы вежливые люди, как вы знаете. В этом плане мы хотим оставаться вежливыми и не вводить ответных санкций. Ну, вы очень хорошо знаете Россию, вы так долго жили в России, но вы должны мне помочь, потому что я не уверен, знаю ли я английскую идиому для этого, для пословицы, помогите мне. Думаю, идея в том, что нужно время, чтобы закончить, но когда вы будете готовы, тогда вы начнете действовать. Это идея? Что-то вроде этого, может быть, так. |
Full house translation — pending review I think we are polite people, as you know. In this regard, we want to remain polite and not introduce retaliatory sanctions. Well, you know Russia very well, you have lived in Russia for so long, but you must help me because I am not sure I know the English idiom for this, for the proverb, help me. I think the idea is that time is needed to finish, but when you are ready, then you will start to act. Is that the idea? Something like that, maybe so. |
| Ответные санкции... мы не ищем конфронтации и не хотим подражать тем безумным жестам, которые делают Вашингтон, Брюссель и другие столицы, пусть и неохотно, но большинство из них, кстати. Но если Запад продолжит эту абсолютно непрофессиональную истерическую политику, нам придется подумать, что мы можем сделать в ответ. Проблема в том, что они говорят нам: « Если вы не измените свою политику, мы причиним вам еще больше вреда». Они считают, что уже причинили нам вред. Мой вопрос: какие изменения вам нужны? |
Full house translation — pending review Retaliatory sanctions... we are not looking for confrontation and do not want to mimic those crazy gestures that Washington, Brussels and other capitals make, albeit reluctantly, but most of them, by the way. But if the West continues this absolutely unprofessional hysterical policy, we will have to think about what we can do in response. The problem is that they tell us: 'If you do not change your policy, we will cause you even more harm'. They believe they have already caused us harm. My question: what changes do you need? |
| Ответа нет. Они начали с того, что пару месяцев назад заявили: «Вы не должны вторгаться в Украину». Мы не собирались вторгаться в Украину. Затем они сказали: «Хорошо, вы должны прекратить отправлять своих агентов и спецназ в Восточную и Южную Украину». Мы сказали: «Их нет». Путин публично заявил об этом. Они сказали, как я только что вам сказал, что украинцы арестовали некоторых из них. Пожалуйста, предъявите их сейчас. Затем они сказали: « Если...» Э-э, не призывайте к отмене этих референдумов 11 мая. |
Full house translation — pending review There is no answer. They started by saying a couple of months ago: 'You should not invade Ukraine.' We were not planning to invade Ukraine. Then they said: 'Okay, you should stop sending your agents and special forces to Eastern and Southern Ukraine.' We said: 'There are none.' Putin publicly stated this. They said, as I just told you, that Ukrainians arrested some of them. Please present them now. Then they said: 'If...' Uh, do not call for the cancellation of these referendums on 11 May. |
| Путин сказал, что, знаете ли, решать народу, э-э, но мы считаем, что, учитывая намерение ОБСЕ начать диалог, было бы полезно отложить их. Теперь они говорят, что если выборы 25 мая не состоятся по какой-либо причине, по какой-либо причине, винят Россию. Разве это не смешно? Многие российские политики говорили, что, по их мнению, настоящая цель Соединенных Штатов — не изменить позицию России в Украине, а свергнуть президента Путина. |
Full house translation — pending review Putin said that, you know, it is up to the people, uh, but we believe that, given the intention of the OSCE to start a dialogue, it would be useful to postpone them. Now they say that if the elections on 25 May do not take place for some reason, for some reason, they blame Russia. Isn't that funny? Many Russian politicians have said that, in their opinion, the real goal of the United States is not to change Russia's position in Ukraine, but to overthrow President Putin. |
| Я думаю, настоящая цель Соединенных Штатов — не позволить европейцам идти своим путем и принимать решения самостоятельно, не позволить НАТО потерять цель своего существования и держать Европу на коротком поводке. Возвращаясь к санкциям, одно событие, произошедшее на прошлой неделе, — французское правительство решило продолжить продажу этих военных кораблей «Мистраль» в сделке, которая стоит немного больше, чем... миллиард евро. Что это говорит вам о том, что Франция собирается это сделать? |
Full house translation — pending review I think the real goal of the United States is not to allow Europeans to go their own way and make decisions independently, not to allow NATO to lose its purpose of existence and keep Europe on a short leash. Returning to sanctions, one event that occurred last week is that the French government decided to continue the sale of these 'Mistral' warships in a deal that costs a little more than... billion euros. What does this tell you about France's intention to do this? |
| Мне кажется, Франция сейчас более серьезно относится к своим договорным обязательствам, чем украинское правительство, потому что украинцы не платят за ваш бензин. Это говорит вам о том, что Европа разделена во мнениях по поводу санкций против России и, возможно, не готова к их ужесточению? Я знаю, что многие, если не большинство европейских стран, не готовы к конфронтации с Россией, особенно экономической. |
Full house translation — pending review I think France is currently taking its contractual obligations more seriously than the Ukrainian government, because Ukrainians do not pay for your fuel. This tells you that Europe is divided in its views on sanctions against Russia and may not be ready to tighten them? I know that many, if not most European countries, are not ready for confrontation with Russia, especially economically. |
| Мы не собираемся нарушать ни одного договорного обязательства перед Европой или кем-либо еще, и я считаю, что так должен вести себя любой серьезный бизнесмен, любой серьезный политик. Думаете, у Запада хватит терпения и внимания, чтобы преодолеть этот кризис на Украине? Мы уже получаем некоторые сигналы о том, что люди начинают испытывать усталость от этого абсолютно бесполезного детского занятия — попытки превратить очень серьезный кризис во что-то, что никак не связано с будущим Украины, но имеет значение. |
Full house translation — pending review We are not going to violate a single contractual obligation to Europe or anyone else, and I believe that is how any serious businessman, any serious politician should behave. Do you think the West has enough patience and attention to overcome this crisis in Ukraine? We are already receiving some signals that people are beginning to feel fatigue from this absolutely useless childish activity — attempts to turn a very serious crisis into something that has nothing to do with Ukraine's future but matters. |
| Это связано с тем, как людей воспринимают их собственные избиратели, как их воспринимают те, кто пытается диктовать политику из Вашингтона, и эта усталость ощущается очень сильно, знаете, когда западные послы по всему миру получают указания обратиться в министерства иностранных дел принимающей страны и сказать: «Я слышал, вы планировали посетить Москву, не делайте этого, отложите визит, сейчас не время, это несерьезно». |
Full house translation — pending review This is related to how people perceive their own electors, how they are perceived by those trying to dictate policy from Washington, and this fatigue is felt very strongly, you know, when Western ambassadors around the world receive instructions to contact the ministries of foreign affairs of the host country and say: 'I heard you planned to visit Moscow, do not do this, postpone the visit, now is not the time, this is not serious.' |
| Когда то же самое сообщение, то есть по тем же каналам, передается: « Не посещайте российские торжества в честь Дня Победы». Мне даже не нужно объяснять, что это значит для россиянина, и я уважаю, я уважаю, я уважаю решение практически всех послов Европейского союза посетить церемонии 9 мая в Москве. К сожалению, посол Европейского союза не присутствовал, и это был политический жест. И я прошу прощения за это. Украинцы говорят, что Россия ведет войну против нее. Это правда? Ну, как я только что упомянул... |
Full house translation — pending review When the same message, that is, through the same channels, is transmitted: 'Do not visit Russian Victory Day celebrations'. I do not even need to explain what this means for a Russian, and I respect, I respect, I respect the decision of practically all European Union ambassadors to attend the ceremonies 9 May in Moscow. Unfortunately, the European Union ambassador was not present, and this was a political gesture. And I apologize for this. Ukrainians say that Russia is waging war against them. Is that true? Well, as I just mentioned... |
| В ходе этого интервью они уже несколько раз просили вас представить хоть одно доказательство. Они постоянно повторяют: « Мы арестовали ваших людей. Пожалуйста, предъявите этих людей, покажите их удостоверения личности, покажите их лица. Если вы арестовали российских шпионов, российских агентов, спецназовцев, покажите им это». Вот в чем проблема. Я только что упомянул, что когда они и Запад говорят, что Россия должна изменить свою политику, мой вопрос: что именно вы хотите, чтобы мы изменили? |
Full house translation — pending review During this interview they have already asked you several times to present at least one piece of evidence. They constantly repeat: 'We have arrested your people. Please, present these people, show their identification documents, show their faces. If you have arrested Russian spies, Russian agents, special forces, show them this'. That is the problem. I just mentioned that when they and the West say that Russia should change its policy, my question is: exactly what do you want us to change? |
| Одна вещь, которую вас просили сделать, это осудить применение насилия в соответствии с Женевскими соглашениями. Как вы говорили, мы осуждаем сепаратизм, мы осуждаем его каждый день, мы осуждаем его каждый день. |
Full house translation — pending review One thing you were asked to do is to condemn the use of violence in accordance with the Geneva agreements. As you said, we condemn separatism, we condemn it every day, we condemn it every day. |
| Но когда они спрашивают: «Когда в последний раз Кремль говорил, что не следует применять насилие на востоке Украины?» Путин сказал это на пресс-конференции с Буртой 5 дней назад, 7 мая, в Кремле, проблема в том, что они говорят, что вы должны осудить насилие, а у правительства есть монополия на применение силы. И мы, Европейский союз, приняли их выводы или как они там называют эти документы на уровне министров иностранных дел. Европейский союз всего несколько дней назад заявил, что они... |
Full house translation — pending review But when they ask: 'When was the last time the Kremlin said that violence should not be used in eastern Ukraine?' Putin said this at a press conference with Bort 5 days ago, 7 May, in the Kremlin, the problem is that they say you must condemn violence, and the government has a monopoly on the use of force. And we, the European Union, accepted their conclusions or whatever they call these documents at the level of foreign ministers. The European Union just a few days ago stated that they... |
| Я поддерживаю и призываю украинские власти продолжать применять силу ответственно и соразмерно. Если они так описывают происходящее на востоке и юге, то это просто полное неуважение к народу Украины и полное неуважение к европейским политикам, потому что, я не знаю, им нужно следить за тем, что происходит, и если, конечно, они не смотрят российское телевидение, они не хотят, чтобы очень оптимистичная картина происходящего в Кев и политика Кев подвергалась сомнению. |
Full house translation — pending review I support and call on Ukrainian authorities to continue to use force responsibly and proportionally. If they describe what is happening in the east and south in that way, then it is simply a complete disrespect for the people of Ukraine and a complete disrespect for European politicians, because, I don't know, they need to keep an eye on what is happening, and if, of course, they are not watching Russian television, they do not want a very optimistic picture of what is happening in Kiev and Kiev politics to be questioned. |
| Но это непрофессионально, это попытка, возможно, набрать очки перед выборами в Европейский парламент 25 мая. Некоторые члены Европейского союза стремятся диктовать условия и задавать тон, но жаль, что Европа действует на основе чего-то, чего она никогда не должна принимать на основе... Что касается возрождения неоизма в очень важной европейской стране, я хотел бы задать вам еще один вопрос, поскольку вы были очень любезны и уделили мне время. Я знаю, что вам нужно ответить на этот вопрос. |
Full house translation — pending review But this is unprofessional, it is an attempt, perhaps, to score points before the European Parliament elections 25 May. Some members of the European Union seek to dictate terms and set the tone, but it is a pity that Europe acts on the basis of something it should never accept on the basis of... Regarding the revival of neo-isam in a very important European country, I would like to ask you another question, since you were very kind and took the time. I know you need to answer this question. |
| Во время событий в Крыму мы спросили президента России, были ли у России войска в Крыму, и он категорически ответил «нет», за исключением персонала российской военно-морской базы. Это верно. Затем на телеконференции он заявил, что на самом деле российские войска находились в Крыму, как он выразился, сразу после пророссийских активистов Крыма. Да, просто сказав, что российские группы были с российской военно-морской базы. Я только что сказал вам, что он никогда не отрицал этого. Это было истолковано даже в России. |
Full house translation — pending review During the events in Crimea we asked the President of Russia whether Russia had troops in Crimea, and he categorically answered 'no', except for personnel of the Russian naval base. That is correct. Then on a teleconference he stated that in fact Russian troops were in Crimea, as he expressed it, immediately after the pro-Russian activists of Crimea. Yes, simply saying that Russian groups were from the Russian naval base. I just told you that he never denied this. It was even interpreted in Russia. |
| Нет, он никогда не отрицал, что российской военно-морской базы не было. То есть, это было основано на российско-украинском заявлении о том, что в событиях в Крыму действительно участвовали российские войска, помимо обычных войск. Еще раз, я пытаюсь ответить на ваш вопрос: российско- украинское соглашение, действовавшее в то время, предусматривало до 25 000 Военнослужащие ВМС должны были быть развернуты на базе в Крыму. |
Full house translation — pending review No, he never denied that there was no Russian naval base. That is, this was based on a Russian-Ukrainian statement that in the events in Crimea Russian troops indeed participated, besides regular troops. Once again, I am trying to answer your question: the Russian-Ukrainian agreement in force at the time provided for up to 25 000 Navy personnel to be deployed at the base in Crimea. |
| На момент начала кризиса их было около 16 или 17 тысяч, и да, мы увеличили численность персонала из-за кризиса, но мы все еще были ниже максимального предела в 25 тысяч, мы никогда этого не отрицали. И да, эти люди перемещались между различными частями базы. И да, в критический момент, когда готовился референдум, они находились за отрядами самообороны. Что касается центрального правительства, то это был незаконный референдум. От какого центрального правительства? От какого центрального правительства? |
Full house translation — pending review At the time of the onset of the crisis there were about 16 or 17 thousand of them, and yes, we increased the number of personnel due to the crisis, but we were still below the maximum limit of 25 thousand, we never denied this. And yes, these people moved between various parts of the base. And yes, at the critical moment when the referendum was being prepared, they were behind the self-defense detachments. As for the central government, that was an illegal referendum. From which central government? From which central government? |
| От центрального правительства Киева? Ну, от правительства, которое проводило этот референдум в Крыму? Да, безусловно. Но причина этого референдума заключалась в том, что люди восстали против вооруженного незаконного переворота, который произошел в Крыму. Они восстали против тех, кто организовал этот переворот при поддержке Соединенных Штатов и Европейского союза. Называя себя правительством победителей, они тем не менее первым актом этого правительства был закон об отмене права на региональные языки. |
Full house translation — pending review From the central government of Kyiv? Well, from the government that conducted this referendum in Crimea? Yes, certainly. But the reason for this referendum was that people rose up against an armed illegal coup that took place in Crimea. They rose up against those who organized this coup with the support of the United States and the European Union. Calling themselves the government of the victors, they nevertheless, as the first act of this government, passed a law on abolishing the right to regional languages. |
| Они так и не подписали его, но проголосовали публично и громко против русского языка, что сразу же вызвало волну протестов в Крыму. Они восстали против попытки вооруженных головорезов из правого сектора проникнуть в Крым и захватить здания. В общем, все это есть в интернете, вы можете посмотреть всю последовательность событий. |
Full house translation — pending review They never signed it, but publicly and loudly voted against the Russian language, which immediately sparked a wave of protests in Crimea. They rose up against the attempt by armed thugs from the Right Sector to penetrate into Crimea and seize buildings. In general, all of this is on the internet; you can watch the entire sequence of events. |
| Если отбросить историю, вопрос в том, увидим ли мы после 25 мая, если мы решим, что выборы были нелегитимными, появятся ли российские войска в Данете, Луганске и других регионах, где проводились референдумы, чтобы поддержать пророссийских активистов, или в любой момент... Посмотрите на эти российские войска... Эта фраза "пророссийские активисты"... Это сложный вопрос. В Данете и Луганске они не хотят, чтобы их называли пророссийскими, проамериканскими, они хотят быть украинцами. |
Full house translation — pending review If we set aside history, the question is whether, after 25 May, if we decide that the elections were illegitimate, Russian troops will appear in Donetsk, Luhansk, and other regions where referendums were held to support pro-Russian activists, or at any moment... Look at these Russian troops... This phrase "pro-Russian activists"... This is a complex question. In Donetsk and Luhansk they do not want to be called pro-Russian, pro-American; they want to be Ukrainians. |
| Украинцы, которые сами являются участниками этого референдума, заявили, что хотят присоединиться к России. Райан, если вы ждете, когда к вам будут относиться как к равным, а с вами обращаются в лучшем случае как с грязью или полностью игнорируют, как это делают власти в течение 2 или 3 месяцев после организации переворота, то я понимаю людей, которые хотят привлечь внимание к своим проблемам. И если это внимание проявляется в приказе армии идти и воевать с ними, то эти люди хотят взять свою судьбу в свои руки. |
Full house translation — pending review Ukrainians who themselves are participants of this referendum have stated that they want to join Russia. Ryan, if you are waiting to be treated as equals, and you are treated at best like dirt or completely ignored, as the authorities have done for 2 or 3 months after organizing the coup, then I understand people who want to draw attention to their problems. And if this attention manifests in an order for the army to go and fight with them, then these people want to take their fate into their own hands. |
| Вот почему мы уважаем результаты этого референдума и не намерены отправлять войска куда-либо. Господин Л. Ро, большое спасибо за ваше время. Спасибо, Райан, я ценю это. |
Full house translation — pending review That is why we respect the results of this referendum and have no intention of sending troops anywhere. Mr. L. Ro, thank you very much for your time. Thank you, Ryan, I appreciate this. |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Kind: captions Language: en thanks for Minister lro thank you very much for joining us I want to start by asking you about the talks that are taking place today in Kiev do you see any chance of those talks being successful uh frankly I haven't seen um um information about the details of those talks uh I understand that this is the result of the pressure which has been exerted on the Ukrainian authorities in Kev by osc in accordance with the Geneva statement of 17th of April uh which called for all-inclusive |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified National dialogue with the participation of all political groups and the regions of Ukraine and frankly I don't know what exactly is the composition of the Round Table uh which has been uh not very um loudly announced as I uh understand in ke uh we believe that for this National dialogue uh to succeed it is absolutely necessary to ensure equal participation of all regions of Ukraine not only east and south obviously but also the regions of the West uh where we also uh have some uh issues related to |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified selfdetermination of minorities they want their rights to be assorted they want cultural autonomy as was manifested by the statement of Hungarian prime minister Victor Orban uh so the inclusiveness is the key to success of this exercise but any step in the direction of national dialogue uh is welcome my understanding is the that the Ukrainian central government is happy to have anyone at the TOs that doesn't have blood on their hands is is that not right uh not an acceptable way talk should the separatists that |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified have been fighting have a seat at the table uh yeah who is going to pass a value judgment on the blood on the hands it's a very rhetorical statement uh it's like we you know saw in relation to the Syrian crisis when uh the West said anyone could participate on the part of the government and the negotiations apart those who have blood on their hands and how you qualify the people with the blood on their hands uh will the uh current Coalition members qualify for this they have been directly involved in the events |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified uh in the maidan and February the current Secretary of the security Council of Ukraine Mr parui was uh seen carrying a sniper gun uh taking it from his car and so on and so forth It's either National reconciliation or it is the winner takes it all and the winner determines uh to whom to took all right so clearly you're not satisfied with the situation now in terms of how the way that the pro The Diplomatic process is going what would it take for Russia give me what needs to be in a deal that Russia would find |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified acceptable well basically it's Devolution of power uh basically it's Geneva statement of the 17th of April which starts with no use of force no violence and no violence means that all the sides not just the East and the South as Victoria nuland tried to present after we met in Geneva that this entire statement is about East and the South which is which is uh Distortion right no no violence means first of all the end of this anti terrorist operation you cannot invite people to sit down and talk as you continue to |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Shell them from artillery from uh motors from uh fighter planes helicopters and we certainly want to understand uh how it happened that the un uh logo uh un painted helicopters were used against the protesters in in the East and the South the United Nations already expressed its very deep concern but my point is that if you want to promote National dialogue you don't do it uh while you are fighting demonstrators who do not agree with your government okay so no violence some kind of devolution elected governors in |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified well that's that should be Ryan this should be the result of this National dialogue process as I said you're not laying out those conditions now uh well it must be the goal this must be the subject of the national dialogue can can Ukraine be part of the European Union would is that would that be acceptable to to Russia uh it's up to ukrainians to decide but if they opt for this route they must understand what will be the consequences for their uh obligations under the uh economic uh Arrangements inside the CIS it |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified was Ukraine who insisted on signing a treaty on free trade area in CIS president yushenko for that matter was the initiator and eventually uh other CS members and Russia reluctantly because we were to lose it bit economically we agreed and there is now a free trade area in in CIS so they have to harmonize their obligations under the this economic arrangement with the economic Arrangements which they want to join if they want to join Ukraine be part of NATO is that this would already be not only uh the issue of |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Ukrainian people uh and of NATO this would be an issue of Russia because we we entered into agreements with NATO members that NATO well originally that NATO would not be expanded uh then when NATO was expanded expanded contrary to the commitments that there would be no uh substantial uh combat forces on the territory of new members no military infrastructure would be moved to the Russian borders all this was you know violated one way or another and the attempts to draw Ukraine into NATO would be very negative for |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified the enre ire system of European security and we would be categorically against it I have nothing to hide actually if it's it's good you raise this issue uh in my in my view uh well it all started much early it all started in the 90s when NATO decided that you know in spite of all the pronouncements that the cold boy is over and there should be no winners uh NATO did uh look upon itself as a winner uh but in Practical terms the current crisis started uh the the the seeds for the current crisis was sown in 2008 in |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified April during NATO Summit in Bucharest where NATO leaders stated uh in a declaration that Georgia and Ukraine will be in NATO few months later uh Mr sakash who took it very emotionally given uh his um character uh he decided that he got the license uh to invade uh his own people uh and to resolve the conflict uh in South assia by force uh he was certainly motivated by this NATO Promise by the way uh like uh now in Ukraine uh sakash soon after he did it started to destroy monuments to the heroes of of World War II |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified the ukrainians the the Neo fascist trend is very much visible in the context of invitation to Nato and in the context of the policies of those who believe that Ukraine must join NATO effectively you have a problem with what you see as the West the United States the European meddling in what you see as your backyard not at all it is not our backyard we cannot consider former something it's not former Soviet space KF is the mother of the Russian cities Uh Russian language Russian uh religion Orthodox Christianity |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified was born on the territory of Ukraine as it stand stands now and we do not consider ourselves foreigners uh Latin America which is the place where backyard expression was coed is different from the North America territory from Traditions from culture uh and we have been one nation for more than 300 years uh even before that the Slavs you know when they brought the religion there more than thousand years ago it's it's absolutely uh impossible impossible to miss this psychological uh historical uh family feeling if |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified you wish you raised a very good point President Putin not too long ago mentioned the term new Russia which is an empirical term that refers to a part of what is today Ukraine um so is what was part of the Russian Empire uh does that give Russia a right to lay claim to it he said no right which is the term of Medieval ages Mal like Malia Malia novaria uh and it's like you know when uh uh when you ask uh people uh in Europe uh where you where are you from and they say South Tero do you feel some Neo imperialistic |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified uh intention in this in this answer it's a historical it's a historical term but President Putin also said that uh God Only Knows Why the Soviet authorities gave transferred uh parts of eastern Ukraine that were Russia to Ukraine but this is this is this is this is a stat this is a statement of fact because the Soviet authorities that foreign minister a lot of people when they heard that thought well that sounds exactly what he said about kusov giving Crimea uh to Ukraine in 1964 is this another justification |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified historical rationalization for a land grab in the east of the country no not at all it's a statement of fact it's a statement of fact uh indeed God Knows Why the Soviet authorities were carving up the uh administrative boundaries inside the Soviet Union the way they did sometimes the Secretary General uh of the party was from Ukraine like kusov or brn and they were shuffling you know these territories because no one uh in in in the worst of nightmares could imagine that the Soviet Union would cease to exist fair |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified enough but eventually when the Soviet Union collapsed there was no intention you know to uh try to get back what was given to Ukraine or to any other Republic under the Soviet leadership more than that uh few years ago we finalized the Border treaty with Ukraine and we started uh demarcation uh of the land bound land border with Ukraine with without even thinking of uh challenging that outcome it's only the events uh of last of the last few months it's only the fact that the current regime with the support of the |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified United States and the European Union came to power relying on neon nists extremists who try to use Force to impose their rules uh anti-russian policies uh cancelling the rights of the Russian uh ethnic Russians in Ukraine and the rights of the Russian speakers uh that you know brought the people of Crimea to revolt against this all right fair enough and to defend them I I got a lot of ground I want to cover with you so let me ask you a quick question but my but my point is that we have been our foreign policy |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Doctrine says we must demarcate borders with all former Soviet republics and we were doing we were in the middle of this work with ukrainians so when this illegal armed coup happened all right can Russia guarantee the world that the eastern most parts of Ukraine and the south of Ukraine will not become Russia that there will be no annexation of that territory uh look you have to you have to really take what I say yes or no uh well it's a very simplistic approach can you can you the West can you guarantee that the |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified rights of Russian speak speaking people the rights of ethnic Russians the rights of hungarians Romanian PS and other minorities who live in Ukraine would be guaranteed can somebody guarantee to us that the current Coalition would not Embrace neonazis like they do now this the swaboda party was elected to the Ukrainian parliament in December 2012 at that time the European Union protested and just like in the case of Mr Haider uh election in Austria they said no one in Ukraine in Ukrainian po politics should |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified cooperate with this swaboda party now this this gentleman and his party is a member of the Coalition supported by the West uh promoting anti-russian anti-semitic statements publicly in the Parliament and the lady from that party named Faron who is in charge of educational reform applauded what happened in adessa so I believe we have to start not from artificial uh hypothetical questions whether somebody would be invading something right but by the substance of how people are going to feel in any country on Earth |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified so I guess the territory outside of Russia now inside the former Soviet Union you can't give a guarantee right now that those areas outside of Russia but inside the former Soviet Union will remain outside Russia I can only you one thing when when when when many ofion uh we on transnistria we clearly stated that we are in favor of a settlement which would respect territorial integrity and sovereignty of mova provided mova keeps its neutrality enshrined in its Constitution and provided it agrees kisho agrees with |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified tasel on a special status of transn on on Ukraine one very blunt very specific example I did not want to make it known but I don't think it's a secret uh after the situation in Crimea resolved the way it was resolved after the referendum took place and after we didn't have any other option but to fully uh respond to that request of the Crimean people uh by overwhelming majority asking to be reunited with Russia uh there was um an initiative on the part of Moscow uh to promote some kind of a support group for |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Ukraine Russia us EU uh to help ukrainians to start National dialogue and we listed uh our perception of how this dialogue could be conducted decentralization federalization whatever you call it an arrangement you call you said Devolution Ryan call it whatever you want but the the main thing is the substance whether this reform satisfies all the regions and there must be some solution which satisfies all the regions the Russian language to be respected and then we stated and and neutral neutral status of of |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Ukraine uh from military political point of view to be respected we listed all these things and then we said in the proposal which we gave to the Americans and to the Europeans that a reformed Ukrainian state would be guaranteed by Russia uh by the European Union by the United States by the security Council to be Sovereign territorially integral and whatever uh you would like to add to a to to to stress to emphasize that this would be respected by everyone unfortunately we didn't get any response to this proposal |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified and unlike our idea that the Constitutional process must be inclusive and must be respectful to all the regions the steps undertaken by our partners in the west especially by the United States and the European Union in indicate that the their main goal is not to reach some national reconciliation in Ukraine but to legitimize the regime which they brought to power on the terms which would be comfortable to this regime and imposed on the rest of the country we had that tragic fire at the beginning of the month in |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Odessa just within the last 24 hours seven Ukrainian troops killed in the east of the country how close is Ukraine to a Civil War uh you should should also add uh quite a number of self-defense uh people who were killed by artillery Fire by moty by the uh Attack Helicopters uh the last 24 hours yes absolutely slavian scors crar how bad can well when when ukrainians when ukrainians uh kill ukrainians I believe this is as close to a Civil War as you can get so what's going on now in you there are there are some |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified there are some uh people in um without any uh identification on the uniform black uniform some say this is the right sector that certainly many many thugs from the from the right sector there were reports about couple of hundreds or more of mercenaries including the rumors which were spread in the German media about the uh Greystone or Academy former Blackwater American private military organization do you believe that there are American mercenaries we ra iuk I send a message through our ambassador to to to |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Washington asking to to to respond to this assertions from the German media because the rumors think rumors to this effect were spread even before and John kry uh rejected them now they popped up again and we would like to to to to see whether this is true or not we also asked about the attitude of the United States uh to the uh phone conversation between minister of interior of avakov and some of his interlocutors which basically indicate that he might be might have been involved in the attempt on the life of |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified the governor of HOV and uh might be might have been involved in uh inviting some foreign fighters to Ukraine and asking for interpreters and so on and so forth we are waiting for answers because we I can you know so you don't have a view yet basically well we have very strong suspicions that this might be true and uh every time uh we meet uh with our Western friends with Americans Europeans they say well you should not pretend that you're not there there were reports that ukrainians apprehended 10 or 12 Russian |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified uh agents uh and our our immediate reaction was please present them to the world show the documents show the pictures show the interviews with them and this happens for more than one month now no single allegations have been proven on the other hand on the other hand these questions which we uh ask uh our Western friends they remain unanswered without any challenge you know that we shall we shall call them Bluff uh and unfort unfortunately is in I said you're as close to the Civil War as you can get but my point |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified is which is an interesting point during the all last rounds on Ukraine in Paris uh Geneva elsewhere uh I always propose to my interlocutors to go to talk to the media together they always refuse to do this I don't know why yeah is there any way Ukraine in your eyes can hold a legitimate election on May the 25th uh I don't know we'll have to see it's not uh us who would be voting it would be uh regions of Ukraine they uh well actually they changed the electoral law uh few weeks ago maybe a couple of months ago uh |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified the way uh which makes it necessary to have a vote only in one region and that would be enough take a look at it it's a very funny law you don't need any uh you know there is no limit for those uh no no minimum for those who must vote uh and uh everything will depend whether they will uh elect uh their president uh under the um counterterrorist operation so to say being continued or they would find uh they're fighting then it's notate I don't think the people the people would would go to to vote in the East and |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified in the South unless unless still have voting the vast majority of the country the vast majority of the population would take part in the vote it would still be observed by the oce but maybe that wouldn't be good enough for Russia uh it has to be good enough for ukrainians and it has to be legitimate in the eyes of ukrainians uh osc we know how experienced these people are how uh creative they might be um we did not send our people to this Mission which would monitor the elections because we have quite a number of |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified questions but as President Putin said any election is the right is a movement in the right direction uh and we'll have to judge this elections by the outcome by sure sounds like you're discounting it before it even takes no I said I said it's a movement in the right direction and I said also that you basically uh when people said that referendum in Crimea was not legitimate because it was held under the under the uh you know guns there was no single no single shot fired in east and south of Ukraine there is a war |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified a real war with heavy weapon re used and if this is something conducive to free and fair elections then uh I don't understand something in uh freedom and fairness you don't recognize legitimacy of the current government no you've made that very clear and that's one of the reasons why you said say you won't you can't deal with them because they haven't been legitimately elected no we actually deal with them that is true if um will you be able to deal in a more meaningful way be more engaged with a newly elected |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Ukrainian president in a way that you're not able to now because as far as you're concerned these people weren't elected so they have no legitimacy so that Hamp well we'll have we'll have we'll have to see the uh what these elections would actually uh res in uh whether this election uh will be held uh as the war continues as the attack on the protest is continues in Gross violation of uh the Geneva statement in Gross violation of the 21st of February agreement by the way by the way one of the first commitment of |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified the current Coalition under the 21st of February agreement was to create a national Unity government uh the day after it was signed they said that this has been superseded by events because yanukovich was not in ke yanukovich was on Ukraine it's an important point yanukovich was in Ukraine but still if they said that just because yanukovich is not in was not in Kev uh they are not bound uh by this commitment to create National Unity government my question is is National Unity commitment was made only for |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified president y ovich or for their country or for their people they instead they created what they called the Coalition of the winners yatsuk went to maidan to brag that they are now the government of the winners and please maidan people endorse us as such which they did what I guess I'm asking is Will elections in Ukraine and the election of a president um and eventually a government there make it easier to find a diplomatic solution to this crisis as far as Russia is concerned well if there is somebody who emerges |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified as a figure uh with the support of majority of ukrainians of course it is easier to have such interlocutor than self-appointed people uh but well is the the front runner in the Ukrainian election at the moment is a gentleman named Petra par someone you're prepared to work with I know him well he was at some point in his career Minister of Foreign Affairs then he was also minister of economy if I am not mistaken and some other positions and Ukrainian uh structures uh you know it's an interesting thing uh he said |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified uh parena said that immediately after the presidential elections he would move with the real reform and that by the end of the year there would be uh I think parliamentary elections maybe it was not announced but there is uh something being discussed to this effect uh the agreement of the 21st of February was quite logical naal Unity government to prepare constitutional reform Constitution to be adopted and then on the basis of a new constitution the elections will take place now they would elect a president |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified before the Constitutional reform is over so the people who are going to vote they wouldn't know what kind of authority they giving to the gentleman or to the lady so let's go back to P because you've called No it's it's slightly ambiguous and and it's um not very logical but still our Western friends believe that this is the uh a priori free and fair election yeah I just I will I will prefer to pass a judgment after I've seen what happened sure but I what I'm trying to understand is is PED penka somebody you |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified could you could work with because as you know Russia has called the Govern the government in Kia many times fascist has said that it has fascist in itess we have to ask not not the entire government I think I think swaboda party uh whose leader repeatedly said that the that Ukraine must be freed from uh more scull and the Jews right and who in his platform in the platform of his party they uh reiterate Allegiance uh to the Declaration of 30th of June 1941 in Ukraine the Declaration which pledged support for |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Hitler's New Order in Europe and they are part of the Coalition openly and vigorously supported by the West P par is not a fascist he is not a member of this party and he's not a fous no and P P Paran is someone you could do business with uh well I met him I met him a couple of months ago in Munich uh in the Munich security conference and uh we can do business with anyone we invited even uh not not we the foreign Ministry but the uh Russian Parliament uh the speaker of which is the president of the CIS |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified parliamentary assembly was circulating invitations to the heads of CIS parliaments and Ukraine is one of the CIS members so trinov was invited in his capacity as the speaker to S Petersburg to this parliamentary assembly he opted not to come it was his decision yatu couple of times talked to prime minister medv I met with theit several times who is appointed as acting Minister by vov NADA the Ministers of energy as you know discuss the situation of the theft of the theft of Russian guest uh so we are in contact I |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified want to move on um to sanctions President Putin has said that um the use of sanctions against Russia would not be effective one of the threats out there is to impose Iran style sanctions against Russia and most people and I don't want to debate this with you but most people agree that Iran style sanctions or the sanctions against Iran were effective in achieving some political AIMS in in Iran why wouldn't Iran style sanctions be effective against Russia um I would not say um you know um just that the Iran uh |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified sanctions uh and I understand you speak of unilateral sanctions which are illegal from international law point of VI because Security Council sanctions about economic sanctions no no no security security coun Security Council sanctions uh did not touch upon sectors of Iranian economy except those involved in the nuclear program uh dual use products uh and the stuff Financial sanctions from the point of view of using the Swift system right uh sanctions against uh non dual use sectors of ir Iranian economy like oil |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified and gas industry they are not legal they're unilateral and me ask and we do not recognize be effective we are not we do not recognize them uh I don't think that economic sanctions uh are being considered uh seriously from the point of view of the responsibility of the West uh in the international economic system the discussions as I can perceive them they're based on the desire to get revenge which is always very bad for politicians which is not professional for anyone who wants to be engaged in serious politics |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified and which would probably it would probably have some effect no doubt I believe if they stop uh the dollar uh transactions for the Russian Banks and for the Russian companies of course it would it would it would cause difficulties uh for Visa Mastercard 95% of financial transaction there would be there would there would be replacement and visa and masterart are already concerned that they would lose the market they're already making passes I don't want to get into these details sure there are you know people |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified invent these systems it's all virtual money it's all virtual transactions and anything which is virtual uh can be replicated especially now that in Russia and in other countries there are many experts who know how this is working uh so uh but my point is that if the West just for the sake of Revenge is ready to sacrifice its reputation as a reliable partner for the entire world economy and for the entire world financial system the if the United States are prepared to sacrifice its reputation as the um holder of |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified the of the key Reserve currency then it's up to them to decide then the entire world would would think differently so about whether they if if next morning somebody in Washington uh would wake up up in bad mood and decides to start a coup elsewhere in not in Ukraine but in Latin America in their own beard as they perceive it yeah then what this then these people must be prepared for this situation so if I understand you correctly economic sanctions against Russia would be successful in some way in damaging the |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Russian economy would would uh sanctions against Russia be effective in changing Russian policy in Ukraine the other way around there will be even more persistent in demanding a free and fair reform in Ukraine we would be even more persistant in demanding from the West not to support fascists and neist and not to support all not to support the government uh which has its spot of it uh neon party yes the other thing which I wanted to you know get response from from Washington was this um reports about a secret |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified visit of the right sector coordinator Areno to Washington for alleged meetings with Victoria nuland and we wanton answers to these questions because uh it's it's it's too serious uh to manipulate events in Europe across the Atlantic uh maybe it's it's not a remote control game you know it's very serious for us we haven't seen a lot of retaliatory sanctions yet from Russia or really any I guess we are polite people as you know with that is that the plan to remain polite and not have retaliatory sanctions uh well |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified uh you know Russia very well you lived in Russia for so long but you have but you have to help me because I I'm not sure I know an English idiom for the for the proverb help me I guess uh the idea would be that it takes while to wind up but when you're ready to go then you'll Act is that the idea um something along these lines maybe maybe so their retaliatory sanctions could we're not we're not looking we're not looking for confrontation and we don't want uh to mimic uh you know the uh hectic gestures being made |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified by Washington uh Brussels some other capitals reluctantly most of them by the way uh but if uh the West continues this absolutely nonprofessional hysterical policies we would have to to think what we can do in return the the problem is they tell us well if you do not change your policy we will hurt you even more they believe they hurt us already my question is uh what is the change you need there is no answer they started by saying saying couple of months ago you must not invade Ukraine we were not going to |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified invade Ukraine we are not going to invade Ukraine uh then they said okay well you have to stop sending your operatives and your um Special Forces into Eastern and Southern Ukraine we said there are none Putin said this publicly they said as I just mentioned to you that the ukrainians arrested some of them please present them now they say then they said if you uh do not uh call for the cancellation of these referendums on 11th of May so Putin said that you know it's up to the people uh uh to decide but we believe |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified that given the intention of osc to start a dialogue it would be useful to postpone them now they say if the elections on the 25th of May do not take place for any reason for reason Russia would be blame isn't it ridiculous a lot of Russian politicians have said they believe that the United States real aim is not to change Russia's position in Ukraine but to overthrow President Putin is that I think the real the real aim of the United States is not uh let Europeans uh to go uh on their own and to decide on their |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified own not let NATO to lose the the the purpose of its existence uh and to keep Europe on a short uh leash speaking returning to sanctions and one event that took place in the last week the French government has decided to go ahead with a sale of those Mistral warships in in a deal that's worth a bit more than a billion euros what does that say to you that France is going to that it says to me that uh France uh is a bit more serious about its contra ual obligations than the Ukrainian government at the moment because |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified the ukrainians aren't paying for your gas does it does it say to you that Europe is divided on the idea of sanctions against Russia and maybe doesn't have the appetite for ratcheting them up well I know that many if not most European countries do not have any appetite for uh confrontation with Russia especially for economic confrontation we are not going to violate a single contractual obligation to Europe or to anyone else and uh I believe that this is the way uh any serious uh businessman any serious politician |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified should behave do you think that the West has the appetite and attention span to see through this crisis in in Ukraine or well we are already getting some uh signals that uh people uh already start experiencing fatigue uh from this absolutely useless childish exercise trying to uh turn a very serious crisis uh into something which does not have anything you know to do with the future of Ukraine but has to do with how people are perceived by their own electorate how they are perceived by those uh who try to dictate |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified the politics from Washington and this fatigue is felt very much you know when when uh the Western ambassadors all over the world are receiving instructions to go to the foreign Ministry of the host country and to say look I heard you were planning to visit Moscow don't do this postpone the visit it is not timely now uh it is not it is not serious when uh the same message uh I mean through the same channels a message is sent don't attend the Russian Victory Day commemorations it's uh I don't even need to to to |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified explain what it means for for a Russian and and I respect and I respect and I respect the decision of practically all ambassadors of the European Union to visit to to to attend the ceremonies on the 9th of May in Moscow unfortunately the ambassador of the European Union uh was not present and this was a political gesture U and I'm sorry for this the ukrainians say Russia is war Waging War against it is that true well as I just mentioned to you a couple of times already during this interview they they we we |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified challenge them to present a single proof they keep saying we arrested your people please present those people please show their idas please show their faces if you arrested a Russian Russian spies Russian operatives Russian Special Forces show them that's that's the problem I just mentioned that when when they and the West say Russia must change its policies my question is what exactly you would like us to change well one thing you could do that they've asked you to do is to uh condemn the use of violence in |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified accordance with the Geneva agreements as you were saying we condemn it separatist we condemn it every day we condemn it every day but but when they say when was the last time the Kremlin said that the should not use violence in eastern Ukraine Putin Putin said this at the press conference with burta 5 days ago 7th of May in Kremlin the problem is that they say you must condemn violence and the government has Monopoly to use force and we the European Union they adopted their conclusions or whatever they call these |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified documents at the foreign ministers level the European Union just few days ago uh said that they um support uh and call upon the Ukrainian authorities to continue to use Force responsibly and proportionately if this is the way they describe what is going on in the East and the south then this is just uh total disrespect to the people of Ukraine and total disrespect to the politicians in Europe because uh I don't know they have to watch what is going on and if if of course they don't watch Russian TV they don't |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified want uh the uh very uh optimistic picture of what is going on in Kev and what are the policies of Kev to be to be challenged uh but uh this is not professional this is an attempt maybe to gain some scores before the elections to the European Parliament on the 25th of May uh some rhobes of course in the European Union uh Tred to call the shots and to call the tunes um but it's a Pity uh Europe uh is acting U on the basis of something which it should never accept it on the basis of being um eing with neoism being |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified revived in a very important European country just ask you one more question because you've been very kind with your time I know you need to go during um the events in Crimea we asked uh the Russian president if Russia had any troops in Crimea and he said no categorically except except the Personnel of the Russian naval base that's correct um and then in a teleconference he said that in fact Russian troops were in Crimea as he put it right behind uh the pro-russian activists of crimeia yes simply saying that |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified Russian groups were from from the Russian naval base I told you just now he never he never denied he never denied was interpreted even in Russia no he he he never denied that there wasn't Russian naval base I mean it's it was based on the Russian Ukrainian that statement was that there were in fact Russian troops involved in the events in Crimea aside from the normal triops you would have on the basis once again I'm I'm trying to answer your question the Russian Ukrainian agreement which was valid at that time |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified provided for up to 25,000 Naval Personnel to be deployed on the base in uh Crimea uh on the uh at the time of the crisis when the crisis started there were about 16 or 17,000 and yes we added more Personnel because of the crisis but we were still below the 25,000 maximum we never denied this and yes these people were moving between the several sides belonging to the base and yes at the point of the uh critical at the critical point when the referendum was being prepared they were behind behind the self-defense uh |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified people the self-defense uh uh detachments as far as the central government is concerned in illegal referendum from what kind of central what kind of central government the central government of of Kiev well the government that that referendum that was happening in Crimea yeah absolutely but the reason for that ref the reason Ryan the reason for that referendum was the fact that the people revolted against an armed illegal coup which happened in K they revolted against the people who arranged this coup with the |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified support of calling themselves the government of the winners the fact that the this the very first Act of this government was to pass a law cancelling the right for regional languages they never signed it into law but they voted they they opted to vote publicly and loudly against the Russian language as it was immediately received in Crimea and they revolted against an attempt of the Armed uh thugs from the right sector entering Crimea and trying to to take over the buildings I guess I mean it's all it's all in |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified the in the internet you can watch the sequence history aside I the question is this uh after May the 25th if you decide that the election was not legitimate could we see Russian troops appear in dank and luhansk and these regions where we had referendums again to to support the pro-russian activists uh or at any point look this this Russian troops in this this this phrase Pro Russian activist well it's a it's a tricky one in danet in lugansk they don't want to be called pro-russian pro-american they want to be |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified ukrainians but ukrainians who who who who are themselves this referes and said they wanted to join Russia Ryan Ryan if you if you wait to be treated like equals and you're being treated like dirt at best or being totally ignored like key if authorities did for 2 or 3 months after they arranged the coup then I understand the people who want you know to draw attention to their own problems and if this attention is manifested in an army being ordered to go and fight them then these people want to take their Destiny |
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Cached English source — passage alignment not verified in their own hands that's why that's why that's why that's why we respect the outcome of this referendum and we don't have any intention to send any troops anywhere for Mr L Ro thank you very much for your time thank you Ryan I appreciate it |